D&D (2024) So IS it a new edition?

[EzekielRaiden]

It's much easier to make it clear it's the... somethingth version that came out in 2024, even though the last of the new books is due out in 2025 when, from the common parlance of games like Madden and FIFA, D&D 2025 ought to be coming out.

Just to be clear, I was being facetious when I wrote the thing you replied to there. I'm not entirely certain that that facetiousness came across.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It just seems really really clear to me that WotC is avoiding a clearer, simpler, more specific name because they're afraid of the implications the audience will draw from that name. I genuinely do not believe that anyone on the team actually prefers this nomenclature over something simpler and more consistent with the game's history.

I doubt that. I suspect that they went over all the ways that they could call it, and settled on this as communicating what they wanted most to communicate. I really don't think that it's quite as nefarious as all that.

Again, us "hardcore" D&D nerds are very attached to the messy naming conventions of the past, but the "mainstream" audience that D&D has picked up is not - and the one that they're looking for in the future is also not.

In this case, I don't even think that it's a lack of respect for the hardcore gamer market. I think that they rightly believe that we can figure it out.

And once they're off the "edition" bandwagon (as it's been used in the past) they can revise the game, when it's appropriate, without as much of the baggage as we've had up until now.

I think that they were right when they tried last time to NOT call it 5e, but it didn't take that time. If they keep trying, they might pull it off. Or not. I guess we'll see.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Just to be clear, I was being facetious when I wrote the thing you replied to there. I'm not entirely certain that that facetiousness came across.

I know. I was building off it.

 

[Daztur]

Again, us "hardcore" D&D nerds are very attached to the messy naming conventions of the past, but the "mainstream" audience that D&D has picked up is not - and the one that they're looking for in the future is also not.

Well they're about to be. Unless 5.5e gets basically universal adoption among 5e players, there'll be a shorthand that'll quickly reach consensus for distinguishing between the older side the newer version of the rules. That wasn't necessary last year because of how dominant 5e was that if you just said "D&D" people would assume that you meant 5e. That's about to no longer become true.

WotC just doesn't have enough pull to make the updated version of 5e be simply "D&D" the way that 5e has been.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I doubt that. I suspect that they went over all the ways that they could call it, and settled on this as communicating what they wanted most to communicate. I really don't think that it's quite as nefarious as all that.

It has nothing to do with "nefarious." I think it's reflecting weaknesses of character in corporate culture. That's not nefarious; at worst, it's simply that marketing-speak and corporate-speak is plastic, hollow, and talking out of both sides of its mouth. Given the ways WotC has behaved over the last two years, I don't think it's particularly unfair to say that the upper-level, corporate types are making some double-plus ungood decisions lately.

Again, us "hardcore" D&D nerds are very attached to the messy naming conventions of the past, but the "mainstream" audience that D&D has picked up is not - and the one that they're looking for in the future is also not.

And I'm of the opinion that "5.5e" is significantly more compatible with the things your alleged "'mainstream' audience" would know and understand, while "2024 D&D" is not.

In this case, I don't even think that it's a lack of respect for the hardcore gamer market. I think that they rightly believe that we can figure it out.

That I can figure it out does not mean what I'm figuring out is necessarily respectful.

And once they're off the "edition" bandwagon (as it's been used in the past) they can revise the game, when it's appropriate, without as much of the baggage as we've had up until now.

That will never happen. Period. It is not possible to iteratively update all possible things. Paizo literally, explicitly said that to their fanbase, when Mr. Bulmahn both eloquently and respectfully asked for PF1e players to give the new edition a chance. He was both circumspect and honest with his audience: the 3e "engine," so to speak, is simply broken beyond repair. It cannot be fixed by slow, iterative updates. It has to be replaced, one way or another. Drop Dead Studios' Spheres of Power/Might system is a similar recognition that the existing rules of 3e are simply broken beyond repair, and have to be replaced; they simply went in a rather different (and interesting!) direction.

I think that they were right when they tried last time to NOT call it 5e, but it didn't take that time. If they keep trying, they might pull it off. Or not. I guess we'll see.

Whereas I think they were fools to think it would work then, and they're fools to think it will work now. There will be a sixth edition, sooner or later. Nothing is eternally evergreen. Remember when Microsoft swore up and down that Windows 10 would be the eternal one? That's why they skipped over naming it the number 9 (even though it is, internally, version 9.x), because the new version would be forever and calling the 9th version the forever version felt off to them?

And now we're only a year out from Windows 10 end-of-life, with Windows 11 being a mildly controversial but relatively accepted platform.

The dream of the evergreen edition/OS/platform/whatever is as much a pipe dream as the 3e engine's dream of having a discrete rule for everything and giving every discrete rule pride of place. It simply does not work; eventually, you realize all the places you've designed yourself into a corner that you can't fix with mere iterative updates. The caster/martial disparity, for example, cannot be fixed with a backwards-compatible rules system, unless you're okay with either massive nerfs to casters or massive power creep for martials.

 

[Minigiant]

So basically two smurfs arguing over who is more blue?

I remember that episode.

They argued about being Smurfiest Smurf .

 

[Greg Benage]

I tried but can't bring myself to read through 40 pages of answers to a completely undefined question. What I've seen is inevitably a debate about what "edition" means rather than how the game has changed.

My impression is that it's just adding new rails to the track that Xanathar's and especially Tasha's started putting down (not to mention errata, Sage Advice, and other rulings and designer commentary over the past ten years). If I just compare PHBs, it looks like a lot of change. If I compare 2014+XGtE+TCoE to 2024, the continuity is striking and pervasive. That seems to align with Wizards' stated strategy for the current product and the future of the line, so it might be better to stop talking about "editions" until/unless that strategy changes.

Other ways I could say the same thing, all of which are about the game and not what constitutes an "edition" in the book trade:

• It feels like more and newer 5e stuff
• Evolution, not revolution
• A new iteration of 5e, not a new iteration of D&D

 

[Valetudo]

Look I have a ton of 5e and 3rd party 5e that is still compatible with it so I don't care if it's a new edition or not, I do consider it an upgrade for my group

 

[Corinnguard]

It just seems really really clear to me that WotC is avoiding a clearer, simpler, more specific name because they're afraid of the implications the audience will draw from that name. I genuinely do not believe that anyone on the team actually prefers this nomenclature over something simpler and more consistent with the game's history.

They're a little too late to be afraid of the implications that we, the audience, will draw from whatever name we'll reach consensus on. We've been talking about what to call it since it first appeared on the scene nearly what, two years ago?

I think, everyone is going to settle for calling it, 5.5e. I doubt that it will be called Revised 5e.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

They're a little too late to be afraid of the implications that we, the audience, will draw from whatever name we'll reach consensus on. We've been talking about what to call it since it first appeared on the scene nearly what, two years ago?

Yes, I'm aware.

I think, everyone is going to settle for calling it, 5.5e. I doubt that it will be called Revised 5e.

Likewise. But, of course, it is easy to be confident that one's preferences will be widely shared, yes?