D&D (2024) So the Power Feats Got Nerfed!

[Zardnaar]

Long time ago I identified the 5 strongest feats in 5E imho. They were.

Sharpshooter
Great Weapon Master
Healer
Warcaster
Resilient: constitution

The first two are obvious, healer broke the early game and the 6-8 encounters thing and the last two trivialize concentration checks which were supposed to balance out magic.

Several other feats eg PAM and XBE are really good but not broken by themselves but combo a bit to well with other things such as the -5/+20 feats or spells.

That was then (2014/15) this is now. I also identified bless and guidance very early on. Of course a few people thought 5E was perfect and had no flaws which tends to happen early on in an edition cycle.

Since then we've learnt that most games are level 1-7, 10% hit level 10/11 and only 1% hit epic levels.

And most people don't seem to follow the 6-8 encounters thing either.

So was Zardy right or wrong?

 

[CleverNickName]

I'm with you on Sharpshooter and GWM, but I'm having trouble following you on the rest.

How does the Healer feat "break the early game" as you say? It lets you use a healer's kit to revive a dying creature, and lets you use a healer's kit to cure 1d6+4+Hit Dice to a creature once per long or short rest. That seems very underwhelming to me for a feat...most folks would choose Magic Initiate, Cleric, spare the dying + cure wounds.

The Concentration mechanic is balanced out by itself, not by combat damage. Only being able to concentrate on one thing at a time is a huge bottleneck to certain spellcasters and spell effects. And even if that weren't the case, War Caster merely grants Advantage on the roll--it doesn't prevent it from happening. (And not to belabor the point, but there are plenty of non-damaging ways to break someone's concentration, that War Caster won't prevent--sleep is the classic, but there are others. And for everything else, there's dispel magic.

I don't see how Resilient (Constitution) trivializes anything. You get proficiency with Constitution saving throws and a +1 to the stat. That's hardly a win-button against spell interruptions.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm with you on Sharpshooter and GWM, but I'm having trouble following you on the rest.

How does the Healer feat "break the early game" as you say? It lets you use a healer's kit to revive a dying creature, and lets you use a healer's kit to cure 1d6+4+Hit Dice to a creature once per long or short rest. That seems very underwhelming to me for a feat...most folks would choose Magic Initiate, Cleric, spare the dying + cure wounds.

The Concentration mechanic is balanced out by itself, not by combat damage. Only being able to concentrate on one thing at a time is a huge bottleneck to certain spellcasters and spell effects. And even if that weren't the case, War Caster merely grants Advantage on the roll--it doesn't prevent it from happening. (And not to belabor the point, but there are plenty of non-damaging ways to break someone's concentration, that War Caster won't prevent--sleep is the classic, but there are others. And for everything else, there's dispel magic.

I don't see how Resilient (Constitution) trivializes anything. You get proficiency with Constitution saving throws and a +1 to the stat. That's hardly a win-button against spell interruptions.

Healer is per person per short rest. Plus unlimited 1hp restoration.

Even at level 9 it essentially a mass heal out of combat.

At low levels by itself it's equivalent to all the hit dice plus all the magical healing togather.

5 member party 2 short rests it's 15d6+60 points of healing.

And not having concentration broken is crazy good I've seen characters soak CR 13-14 dragon breath level 7/8 and not have concentration broken due to those feats. Clerics using spiritual guardians and putting rogues to shame damage wise is also a thing.

 

[CleverNickName]

Healer is per person per short rest. Plus unlimited 1hp restoration.

Even at level 9 it essentially a mass heal out of combat.

At low levels by itself it's equivalent to all the hit dice plus all the magical healing togather.

5 member party 2 short rests it's 15d6+60 points of healing.

Well I mean, it's limited by the number of times you fall unconscious--you only get the +1 hit point when you stabilize a dying creature, not every time you use a healing kit. But yeah, healing is incredibly easy in this edition. Between Hit Dice and everything replenishing on a long rest, regardless of character class or magical ability...hit points are hardly a rare resource. Players are far more likely to spam Short Rests and Hit Dice than healer's kits, in my experience, because it doesn't cost a feat. I can agree that the Healer feat is a problem from that point of view (albeit just one part of a bigger problem.)

But I'm getting into the weeds here. You wanted to discuss the feats getting nerfed, not the Concentration mechanic itself, and I worry I'm gonna derail the thread. I'll wrap up my final thoughts in a Spoiler tag.

Spoiler: Off-topic banter about Concentration

Not sure what to say about the dragon not being able to break a spellcaster's concentration; usually the spellcaster runs out of hit points from the focused claw, bite, and tail attacks. But like I said: damage is just one way to break a caster's concentration or end a spell. One of my favorite moments was when a succubus commanded our cleric (who was concentrating on a different spell) to cast bless on them. "Bless me, priest," the demon purred, and the cleric failed his save throw.

I have no problem with spirit guardians doing more damage than the rogue, either. Usually when our cleric casts that spell, the monsters flee the area and won't return when they see the spell end. What other choice do the monsters have? It doesn't make sense that they would just stand there and helplessly take damage (well, unless they're mindless or controlled, I guess.) I always thought that spirit guardian and spells like it were intended to give the caster breathing room, not wipe the battlefield.

 

[Clint_L]

Weird thread, but you did ask, so: 8 years into 5e, player consensus would be you were mostly wrong.

Sharpshooter: legit top tier feat, top five debatable.

Great Weapon Master: Same

Healer: not sure if serious. Using an action on healing in combat is already a terrible choice. Just use Healing Word from 60 feat away. A few extra hit points doesn't matter compared to the far superior range and action economy. Never seen anyone take this feat.

Warcaster: Good feat. Solid choice. Not top five.

Resilient: Constitution: also not sure if serious. Toughness probably gets taken ten times for every time this is chosen, and Toughness is not top 5 either.

Few, if any, would hold all of those up as the 5 strongest feats in 5e.

 

[Zardnaar]

Weird thread, but you did ask, so: 8 years into 5e, player consensus would be you were mostly wrong.

Sharpshooter: legit top tier feat, top five debatable.

Great Weapon Master: Same

Healer: not sure if serious. Using an action on healing in combat is already a terrible choice. Just use Healing Word from 60 feat away. A few extra hit points doesn't matter compared to the far superior range and action economy. Never seen anyone take this feat.

Warcaster: Good feat. Solid choice. Not top five.

Resilient: Constitution: also not sure if serious. Toughness probably gets taken ten times for every time this is chosen, and Toughness is not top 5 either.

Few, if any, would hold all of those up as the 5 strongest feats in 5e.

You need to see healer in action to see how good it is.

Note that it's been nerfed.

 

[Clint_L]

You need to see healer in action to see how good it is.

Note that it's been nerfed.

And I never will because no one ever takes it.

 

[Horwath]

You need to see healer in action to see how good it is.

Note that it's been nerfed.

It has been nerfed because WotC conjured up an idea of "1st level feat" ad those feats must be weaker than other for some unknown reason.
Healer was put in those categories in hope that someone would finally take that feat.

I have never seen in 8 years that someone took that feat.

If it were half feat with current rules maybe.

 

[Olrox17]

I’ve seen old Healer in action, gotta agree that it’s a fantastic feat. Helps conserve so much spell slots that would otherwise get wasted on healing. Loses a bit of steam beyond level 8 or so.

GWM and SS were obviously high power choices.

Resilient (Con) is golden merely because of how dangerous effects that target Con can be. If you’re also a spellcaster, it kinda becomes an auto pick.

Warcaster wasn’t as powerful overall compared to the others, IMO. Unless you built something cool around the spell opportunity attack.

 

[Li Shenron]

I am fine with all those 5 original PHB feats, although I think I would have been fine also with the newer versions.

In general, I only think Sharpshooter is a bit too much but not because of itself, rather because it's part of a large number of rules and options which make ranged combat potentially too convenient, unless you take great measures as a DM to have melee monsters exploit full cover and concealment.