So, Wandavision?

[Tonguez]

Mentioning Ronin reminded me of something...

Wanda gets let off the hook? Yeah.

But Ronin is off the hook for goodness knows how many people he killed in Japan.

Through the whole thing, Black Widow is telling us how horrible a person she was killing goodness knows how many people.

How much damage to property and life does Hulk inflict? But Professor Hulk is walkin' around a free man...

And Tony Stark. The dude was a weapons manufacturer. Ultron is his fault. So, Sokovia? His fault. The Sokovia Accords, and thus the Civil War? By continuing trail of cause and effect, Tony's fault.

I mean, It was a Stark weapon that killed Wanda's parents. If she had grown up with them, maybe she'd not be such a wreck...

The problem with real-world-style consequences is that they tend to end stories. Tony and Natasha finally pay for their acts with their lives... so their stories are done.

Barton and Black Widow were both SHIELD/KGB agents and thus their actions were sanctioned by their respective Governments. I’m assuming the Sokovia Accords meant that the Avengers Initiative also extended a degree of government sanction to the Hulk etc (not than General Ross is happy about that, but sending him off planet didnt work).

The Ronin mantle was a secret identity which Black Widow and War Machine covered up. I’d be happy to bet that Stark also had enough contacts and pulled enough strings so that his responsibility for Ultron was also conviniently shelved.
But Stark wasnt let off the hook, Civil War is party about Stark taking some responsibility for his past actions

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I think 2020 might have given us some hints in as much as food supply was considered as essential work and a number of unemployed were encouraged/diverted to harvest work.

Most estimates state that the World currently produces 1.5 x the global population (ie more than society actually need) and that a good lot of it gets wasted or stored.
So a sudden drop in population would mean that there would be a lot of initial over supply of food in storage, lets say with some rationing that lasts the first 2 years of the snap. After that the various government declare crisis and emphasise food security as a priority - leading to increase diversion of resources and people to food production and storage.
After the Blip the returned population will be eating in to the stored supply, but not to the extent that there would be worldwide starvation.

Just to point out that Kevin Feige confirmed in an interview that the Snap erased half of all life, not just sentient life. So half of all the plants and bugs and animals and humans and aliens, and so on, simply disappeared. Now the question I have not seen answered, was the return Snap by Hulk only for all sentient life? If all those people returned to a planet still trying to recover from half of all crops and food animals disappearing, imagine the strain that would make on food supply.

 

[Tonguez]

Just to point out that Kevin Feige confirmed in an interview that the Snap erased half of all life, not just sentient life. So half of all the plants and bugs and animals and humans and aliens, and so on, simply disappeared. Now the question I have not seen answered, was the return Snap by Hulk only for all sentient life? If all those people returned to a planet still trying to recover from half of all crops and food animals disappearing, imagine the strain that would make on food supply.

Ok, that does change things somewhat - losing half the worlds crops probaby isnt a good thing. And what does that imply for global oxygen supply?

obviously Quantum

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Surely he meant half of all ANIMAL life?

Either way, it occurs to me that there probably was a baby boom during those five years. (And there are some species that probably wouldn't survive without half of them!). So the world when the other half comes back, is probably MORE crowded than it otherwise would have been. (Though on the other hand, the missing half didn't procreate during that time, so maybe not...)

What a mess the world would be!

 

[Bawylie]

Surely he meant half of all ANIMAL life?

Either way, it occurs to me that there probably was a baby boom during those five years. (And there are some species that probably wouldn't survive without half of them!). So the world when the other half comes back, is probably MORE crowded than it otherwise would have been. (Though on the other hand, the missing half didn't procreate during that time, so maybe not...)

What a mess the world would be!

We haven’t even contemplated gut bacteria.

 

[Rune]

Barton and Black Widow were both SHIELD/KGB agents and thus their actions were sanctioned by their respective Governments. I’m assuming the Sokovia Accords meant that the Avengers Initiative also extended a degree of government sanction to the Hulk etc (not than General Ross is happy about that, but sending him off planet didnt work).

The Ronin mantle was a secret identity which Black Widow and War Machine covered up. I’d be happy to bet that Stark also had enough contacts and pulled enough strings so that his responsibility for Ultron was also conviniently shelved.
But Stark wasnt let off the hook, Civil War is party about Stark taking some responsibility for his past actions

Black Widow stopped serving in the KGB when she was recruited into SHIELD (presumably). Neither she nor Hawkeye are in SHIELD anymore, because there is no SHIELD anymore (assuming Agents of SHIELD is not canon).

Additionally, both are in violation of the Sokovia Accords by the end of Civil War. Ronin is a fugitive. Who serves no master, like...you know, a ronin.

 

[Tonguez]

Black Widow stopped serving in the KGB when she was recruited into SHIELD (presumably). Neither she nor Hawkeye are in SHIELD anymore, because there is no SHIELD anymore (assuming Agents of SHIELD is not canon).

Additionally, both are in violation of the Sokovia Accords by the end of Civil War. Ronin is a fugitive. Who serves no master, like...you know, a ronin.

Yeah the KGB reference was just indicating that Romonoff was sanctioned by a government throughout her career (before and after Barton got her to defect)

During End Game we get the scene where Black Widow is continuing to coordinate Avengers operations with both War Machine and Okoye reporting to her. War Machine (Colonel Rhodes) and General Okoye are both ranking officers in their respective nations military, which I take as a sign of official mandate

Its in that scene that War Machine is tasked with bringing Ronin in (because they both suspect that Ronin is Barton), Barton is brough back by the time of the final battle.

 

[Janx]

Mentioning Ronin reminded me of something...

Wanda gets let off the hook? Yeah.

But Ronin is off the hook for goodness knows how many people he killed in Japan.

Through the whole thing, Black Widow is telling us how horrible a person she was killing goodness knows how many people.

How much damage to property and life does Hulk inflict? But Professor Hulk is walkin' around a free man...

And Tony Stark. The dude was a weapons manufacturer. Ultron is his fault. So, Sokovia? His fault. The Sokovia Accords, and thus the Civil War? By continuing trail of cause and effect, Tony's fault.

I mean, It was a Stark weapon that killed Wanda's parents. If she had grown up with them, maybe she'd not be such a wreck...

The problem with real-world-style consequences is that they tend to end stories. Tony and Natasha finally pay for their acts with their lives... so their stories are done.

Yeah, this.

I'm struggling with this in my book project. Because it sure seems fishy if the hero gets away with all the things he needs to so he can keep heroing.

 

[Umbran]

Barton and Black Widow were both SHIELD/KGB agents and thus their actions were sanctioned by their respective Governments.

So, you may have missed the point slightly. The isn't about the legal justifications why these people aren't in jail.

Folks are annoyed that Wanda "gets away with it". I didn't see a lot of talk about how any of these others "got away with it". We just accepted that yeah, Tony Stark has the blood of thousands on his hands. We just bypass that, 'cuz he's the hero.

But for Wanda, little quarter is given. Even when Stark is significantly responsible for Wanda!

I’m assuming the Sokovia Accords meant that the Avengers Initiative also extended a degree of government sanction to the Hulk etc (not than General Ross is happy about that, but sending him off planet didnt work).

And if there's one thing we have learned from the MCU, it is that governments are on the right side of moral/ethical arguments on a frequent basis?

But Stark wasnt let off the hook, Civil War is party about Stark taking some responsibility for his past actions

Except Stark wasn't the one facing most of the consequences, now was he? Captain America and crew were being chased around, while TOny got to be comfortable... except when Cap was punching him.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I'm struggling with this in my book project. Because it sure seems fishy if the hero gets away with all the things he needs to so he can keep heroing.

That is just the way it has always been with the mainstream comic book companies. Sure, some smaller companies, who tell grittier stories, are more realistic on this stuff, but not the big boys. How many times in his career should Batman have been locked up for all his law bending and breaking. Vigilantism is generally against the law, after all. But comics say the greater good is more important than punishing the heroes. Plus, how many of them would continue to be heroes and protect the world if they thought there was a real chance of jail time? And as for the MCU, I think that if the Sokovia Accords were not needed to advance the plot and story for all the future films, it probably would not have been in the movies at all.