So what do we think of the "Shadow Chasers" approach to damage?

[PenguinKing]

For those of you who aren't familiar, this is the way it works:

1) Uses the Star Wars-type Vitality/Wound system (characters have two sets of hit points: Vitality, based on hit dice, and Wound, equal to Constitution. Attacks inflict Vitality damage, except in critical hits or when the target's Vitality is exhausted, in which case they inflict Wound damage).

2) All base classes have d4 Hit Dice (prestige classes may go as high as d10).

3) All classes have a class-based Defense (think AC) bonus, starting at anywhere from 1-3 and topping out anywhere from 7-9.

4) Weapons have much higher damage ratings - ranging from 3d4 at the lowest to 3d12 at the other end of the scale.

5) Armor provides DR instread of a defense bonus, ranging from 3 for basic armor, to 10 for the high-end stuff. DR - whether armor-based, magical, or otherwise - applies *only* to Wound damage.

Otherwise, as normal D&D combat.

At a glance, what effect would all this have on the way combat plays out, d'yer think?

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[Wolfspider]

Well, someone made an observation several weeks ago that it would be easy to whittle someone wearing body armor to zero vitality points just using a dagger, but then suddenly (because of the armor's DR) you wouldn't be able to touch them.

Even though it's a logical system--loss of VP doesn't represent being hit and damaged, so armor would never come into play until actual blows were landed (in the form of WP damage)--I think this could be a problem.

I would just get rid of VP altogether, making the damage rules a lot like Call of Cthulhu (the Basic Role Playing version, of course)....

 

[PenguinKing]

Well, someone made an observation several weeks ago that it would be easy to whittle someone wearing body armor to zero vitality points just using a dagger, but then suddenly (because of the armor's DR) you wouldn't be able to touch them.

Well, the system does assume that firearms are the weapon du jour - you want a system that accurately simulates everything from a hatpin to an ICBM without using ridiculously large/small numbers and/or half-a-dozen layers of abstraction, play GURPS.

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[Wolfspider]

Well, the system does assume that firearms are the weapon du jour - you want a system that accurately simulates everything from a hatpin to an ICBM without using ridiculously large/small numbers and/or half-a-dozen layers of abstraction, play GURPS.

Heh. Oh, I don't mind abstraction. Just making an observation.

By the way, I have been considering picking up GURPS lately. I'm not really sure why, but the thought has been slipping into my mind often, like a little voice. "Buy GURPS....buy GURPS."

Very strange.

 

[rounser]

I'm not really sure why, but the thought has been slipping into my mind often, like a little voice. "Buy GURPS....buy GURPS."

Very strange.

If subconcious voices persist, wear tinfoil on your head.
Steve Jackson has connections. Fnord.

 

[Staffan]

Well, the system does assume that firearms are the weapon du jour - you want a system that accurately simulates everything from a hatpin to an ICBM without using ridiculously large/small numbers and/or half-a-dozen layers of abstraction, play GURPS.

Or TORG, which gets there without using things like 2d6x100,000 points of explosive damage. Go logarithms!

 

[hong]

At a glance, what effect would all this have on the way combat plays out, d'yer think?

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking it will significantly increase the impact of critical hits on the game. You can sit there for a few rounds feeling happy that the mooks aren't penetrating your plate armour, then wham, someone rolls a natural 20 and you're down to -1 hit points.

This can happen as it is in D&D, but not to the same extent (ignoring for the moment things like disintegrate spells). Whether it's a good thing or not, depends on what sort of game you want to run.

 

[PenguinKing]

Re: Re: So what do we think of the "Shadow Chasers" approach to damage?

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking it will significantly increase the impact of critical hits on the game. You can sit there for a few rounds feeling happy that the mooks aren't penetrating your plate armour, then wham, someone rolls a natural 20 and you're down to -1 hit points.

Not really - DR doesn't apply to Vitality damage, so a mook can quite happily take you down to 0 VP. And after that... well, the best armors in the game have DR 10, while a mook with a handgun is inflicting either 3d6 or 3d8 - which are Wound damage, 'cause you've got no Vitality left. Granted, armor applies against Wound damage, even that from crits, but 3d6 vs DR 10 is quite capable of hurting.

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[mmadsen]

1) Uses the Star Wars-type Vitality/Wound system (characters have two sets of hit points: Vitality, based on hit dice, and Wound, equal to Constitution. Attacks inflict Vitality damage, except in critical hits or when the target's Vitality is exhausted, in which case they inflict Wound damage).

2) All base classes have d4 Hit Dice (prestige classes may go as high as d10).

By giving Con + d4/level Hit Points, they keep everyone's hit points in a very playable range. That's a good thing.

3) All classes have a class-based Defense (think AC) bonus, starting at anywhere from 1-3 and topping out anywhere from 7-9.

Sounds fine.

4) Weapons have much higher damage ratings - ranging from 3d4 at the lowest to 3d12 at the other end of the scale.

That fits the kind of weaponry involved, right? Guns? I don't like the use of multiple dice though; it reduces the variance of the damage. A gun shot should be able to do anything from graze you (1 hp) to pierce your heart (20+ hp).

5) Armor provides DR instread of a defense bonus, ranging from 3 for basic armor, to 10 for the high-end stuff. DR - whether armor-based, magical, or otherwise - applies *only* to Wound damage.

Armor as DR makes perfect sense, but you'd probably want rules for bullets to still do damage through armor they can't penetrate, etc.

Now, if DR onlyy affects Wound damage, I think the Wound/Vitality dichotomy is just a lot of extra accounting we don't need. Why not just group everything into one value called, say, "hit points"?

At a glance, what effect would all this have on the way combat plays out, d'yer think?

It sounds like characters should rarely get hit, but each hit will hurt. Nonetheless, a 10th level noncombatant should have 30 hit points, so a single pistol still won't be lethal to even a "wimpy" hero.

 

[PenguinKing]

Now, if DR onlyy affects Wound damage, I think the Wound/Vitality dichotomy is just a lot of extra accounting we don't need. Why not just group everything into one value called, say, "hit points"?

Now that doesn't make lick of sense - you put them back together and you've entirely changed the way DR works, without reducing the amount of bookeeping - heck, if anything, since you've shuffled the DR around to apply to every single attack again, there's probably more bookkeeping.

(And if I recall, you're the guy who wants an old lady with a hatpin to be able to kill a big, burly barbarian in a single blow if you decide that's what's good for your game. )

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!