D&D 5E (2024) So, what does the Artificer "replace"?

[Andras]

In our last campaign I played a Warforged Tasha's Armorer artificer to 18th. Our party was me, a paladin, ranger and sorcerer. The ranger and I both took Druid Initiate* and Goodberry as our 1st level spell. That gave us a healing boost and negated food issues. His were Scooby Snacks and mine were Crunchberrys.

We played classic module conversions, starting with KoTB, Isle of dread, Barrier Peaks and Lost Caverns. My guy loves laser pistols. We really had no issues as far as trying to fill roles, the ranger was super sneaky and I was finding traps and opening doors. We put out so much direct damage and had pretty high ACs so healing wasn't really a problem.

Very fun campaign.

*We incorporated elements of 5de24 including the background feats.

 

[Charlaquin]

View attachment 424776

Of course!

 

[Zardnaar]

Let me put it this way: All Clerics have the capability of casting cure wounds and healing word in 5e; it's simply a matter of whether they, y'know, actually elect to do so or not. Does that mean Clerics are "rigid[ly]" locked into being healers?

Every Fighter has Extra Attack and gets up to 4 attacks/round eventually. Does that mean the Fighter is "rigid[ly]" locked into being a Striker, since that's pretty clearly a Striker-type feature?


Fighters had to start with Defender-focused features. Both as the class evolved, and as characters gained levels, they could easily branch out in new directions or supplement.

Which required buying more content. Screw that.

 

[Charlaquin]

Which required buying more content. Screw that.

You could build a pretty capable “striker” fighter out of just the 4e PHB1. Classes did get more versatile as the edition went on, but even out of the gate, they weren’t as rigid as people seemed to think they were.

 

[Zardnaar]

You could build a pretty capable “striker” fighter out of just the 4e PHB1. Classes did get more versatile as the edition went on, but even out of the gate, they weren’t as rigid as people seemed to think they were.

You could use a greatsword. It wasnt as good as a ranger or even close. Still sucked as an archer.

5E fighter is way more versatile is the main point. 5.0 a d 5.5.

Same as 3.5 and 2E arguably 1E.

4E rangers not a very good ranger. Very good striker.

I wont mention the phb Sorcerer.

 

[Charlaquin]

You could use a greatsword. It wasnt as good as a ranger or even close. Still sucked as an archer.

5E fighter is way more versatile is the main point. 5.0 a d 5.5.

Is it, though? It does better at being the party’s main damage dealer. But it also does much worse at protecting other party members. I’d argue it’s really no more versatile, it’s just differently specialized.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think we're still in the Paladins-suck-with-new-changes!! phase of online discourse. The Artificer class did change. Tool expertise is flat out gone. Generalized tinkering is gone, with a stronger focus on specialization. Limits on firearms. Low-level cantrip reliance. Homuculus Servant part of dps calculations.

Gonna take time for the actual-play results to drown out naysayers.

Yea my wife and I are coming around a little. Party because the Artificers Forge bastion facility makes up for a lot, partly because tol expertise wouldnt actually do anything in the new rules, humonculus as spell is an upgrade, etc.

But...unless they update the tasha's class-locked items, which they wont, we still agree that killing the ability to ignore atunement restrictions is a massive thematic nerf that we just will not accept.

And i dont care how many prople kid themselves, the psuedo cantrip items were a better feature than making rope. Every single artificer i saw used that feature at least once a level, usually more. much more.
I doubt i will ever zee its replacement in use, if i play 5e dnd foe the next fifty years. It is a worthless sub-ribbon joke of a feature.

 

[Zardnaar]

Is it, though? It does better at being the party’s main damage dealer. But it also does much worse at protecting other party members. I’d argue it’s really no more versatile, it’s just differently specialized.

You can do the main 4 styles fighters have been good at since 2E fighters handbook. Sword and board, two handed, two weapon, archery. You have 4 archetypes 4E had 2.

Its better at killing stuff. Defender made the fighter worse at protecting stiff. Death is the best debuff every edition.

Outside the fighter you had missing classes, and every 5E class is more versatile as youre not locked into control of defenders etc. Eg Sorcerer can easily be built to do control or striker.

I said earlier that was 4E big screw up. Rigid roles that no one asked for. They wanted a fixed 3.5.

And no I dont want to pay more money fir missing classes and races that shoukd have been un the phb. Yes im aware they weren't developed in time but needed an extra year.

Go reread the 4E phb. Its not good by itself. Just glance through it im dont expect you to read it cover to cover.
I dont think any fan of 4E would play it these days just using the DMG, PHB, MM.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Just the first phb.

5E fighter. 4 types vs 2 and you can do all the main things expected without having to buy more books. And you dont have to be a defender.

"Just the first phb" isnt a meaningful qualifier. That isnt how 4e works. the first phb does not represent the base game. if ypu dislike that, fair, but it is a fact. The first phb isnt more important than the second phb.

The 5e fighter cannot be effecfive in any role than front line damage tank. Archer? They're garbage archers. 4e had much more actual versatility and flexibility.

The only thing 5e fighters are naturally good at is hitting hard and being tough enough to withstand enemy reprisal, ie tanking.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Just the first phb.

5E fighter. 4 types vs 2 and you can do all the main things expected without having to buy more books. And you dont have to be a defender.

even with all the later content i'd say 5e still struggles to offer a decent martial defender playstyle, oh sure you can have high AC or HP but the issue has always been making the enemies not walk straight past you.