D&D 5E (2024) So, what does the Artificer "replace"?

[Mephista]

Its very rare for my games to get to level 11 (we start at level 3) at the very most, and even then that's, like, a capstone right before the end of the game. Or we're playing a level 20 one-shot.

In the former, I don't expect to have an army with wands and SSI. And with the latter, well, its level 20. I expect to have six legendaries attuned and an army of wand-casters, just as I expect the same from the wizard and their shinanigans.

 

[Zardnaar]

I know the optimizer community relies on a half dozen pets using wands and Spell storing items to spam multiple spells per round, but and player who tries to rely on that is going to find his army targets of enemy attacks.

(The same thing was true of conjuring large amounts of pixies or controlling an battalion of skeletons with longbows).

I kind of have a build for it where you manipulate initiative.

D&D 5E (2024) Thread 'Cartographer May be Underrated. The Cheerleader A Build.'

Yesterday at 11:13 PM

So the cartographer has the reputation of being the weakest artificer. Im not sure about that as you have a few more options. For example the artilerist and battlesmith probably have other things to do with their actions. And may have to use spell slots to do their thing.

Expanding on This thread.


Basically I suggested the cartographer will make a good support character. I'm going to double down on that and add controller as well. All artificers at level 11+ are going to benefit from spell storing...

• Zardnaar
• Replies: 10
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

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[doctorbadwolf]

You can do the main 4 styles fighters have been good at since 2E fighters handbook. Sword and board, two handed, two weapon, archery. You have 4 archetypes 4E had 2.

Thia is blatantly false.

The 4e fighter from day one can do each of those except archery and gets archery within the first year of publication of the edition. Even if we pretend that day one matters in an edition where day one is not the entire 'base game', you are objectively incorrect because the fihter can do two-hander, sword and shield, polearm (which is very different in 4e from non reach twohanders), AND can play super differently depending on powers to a degree Battlemaster looks at and sighs wistfully wishing it could get even kinda close to, and can use its main feature to focus on defending, single target control, or damage dealing, and do each effectively.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yup.

Lots of 4E fans (who don't actually play 5E) make statements like this lol.

BS.

If anything, i doubt you played 4e, yet you talk like youre knowledgable when in fact you dont seem to know basics about it.

Fighters are the best archer in 5E. That extra feat at 5th is great. Bathlemaster in particular. Champions also good.

Rangers are better archers by far. More uses of spells than BM has superiority dice, and ensaring strike and hail of thorns are more powerful. Hell lightning arrow is more powerful. champion is...good at damage and nothing else.

I think class locked items are dumb in the first place. Like... why lock out a staff of fire? And no scrolls or potions qith RMI?

Well, they make sense when they enhance specific class features, like letting you regain sorcery points when you deal fire damage or something like that. Even the wizard locked spellbooks kinda make sense, even though they could have just require that you have the avility to add spells to a spellbook (which a tome lock or someone with ritual caster feat could do before 2024), but my wife's Artificer has one of the spellbooks from Tasha's, and I am having to houserule that feature back in so she doesnt lose it by updating.

They've made several weird decisions I'm guessing because they're afraid of somehow making the Artificer too powerful for some reason.

But their hand wringing gets in the way of class identity, which is. . . Yeah.

Absolutely. Both are ribbons, but one feels more fun than the other

Yep. I can buy rope and just...be pepared. I cannot duplicate the 2014 tinker items. Not even with the cantrips they are based on.

Yeah, despite the adage that “dead is the best Condition,” damage is generally not the most efficient path to ending a combat encounter in 5e. Monsters just have enough HP that it’s usually easier to use debilitating spells instead.

Yep. A locked down enemy isnt dealing damage. A locked down enemy dies faster.

Damage uber alles is a short-sighted mindset, tactically.

 

[Mephista]

Well, they make sense when they enhance specific class features, like letting you regain sorcery points when you deal fire damage or something like that. Even the wizard locked spellbooks kinda make sense, even though they could have just require that you have the avility to add spells to a spellbook (which a tome lock or someone with ritual caster feat could do before 2024), but my wife's Artificer has one of the spellbooks from Tasha's, and I am having to houserule that feature back in so she doesnt lose it by updating.

The problem I have is that, overwhelmingly, the class locks are entirely for things like gatekeeping spells to casters. However, the reverse isn't true - the only weapon that I can think of with a class lock is the Holy Avenger. I've never seen anything that is restricted to Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue, Monk, or Ranger.

It also has the negative side effect of being unfriendly towards any potential future classes.

But in the case of Artificers? There seems to be an odd restriction on giving them access to rods and staves in the first place. I can kind of see rods somewhat, since half of them are functionally magical maces, but why is the Artillerist not making staffs? I'm not sure how it could be used and abused. Its not a problem when a Druid gets a staff with some of the most powerful T2 damage spells in the game, but it is when the Artificer does?

Yep. I can buy rope and just...be pepared. I cannot duplicate the 2014 tinker items. Not even with the cantrips they are based on.

Going back, lets see... you have a tiny light source, prerecorded message, odd smell / sound, and the pictures. The odd smell/sound IS presigitation. I suppose that the light can be replicated with the Prestigitation tiny flame, but that requires a candle - the artificer power is honestly closer to a small Light cantrip than it is to Prestigitation. The pre-recorded messages and pictures, however, are unique to the old Artificer; at best, we're talking Minor Illusion?

Honestly, the easiest solution (and one I'm shocked they didn't take) was to make the above into just... another cantrip. Its not going to hurt anyone's feelings if you make another cantrip in the style of Thaumaturgy, Druidcraft, Prestigitation and give it to the Artificer. I don't think anyone would be upset if it made its way onto other spell lists either (though I'd probably only do Artificer and Bard). They could have also made it into a common magic item, I suppose, though that's less interesting imho.

Free Mending cantrip is the only real winner here. Free healing on your construct-pets / cannon, and not uncommon to be used in exploration stuff.