D&D 5E (2014) So what happened to like, the PrCs/Paragon classes and the multi-class classes?

[1of3]

Too little too late. To make that work, it must work right from the start.

 

[Li Shenron]

Too little too late. To make that work, it must work right from the start.

IMO the problem was that they didn't think it was necessary to have a system (that works), exactly because the original idea was more like "we came up with the concept of PrCl, but it's probably too awkward and few people will use it, so we present it as an optional DM-DIY tool". They did something similar with custom classes (see the Witch example) but people largely ignored that option, and designers also used it only a few years later and not in the same magnitude as PrCls.

Note that 5e is taking only a slightly better approach, with "guidelines" about building subclasses. It has to be noted however, that it looks indeed easier to create custom subclasses in 5e than it was to create custom PrCl in 3e, at least for the following reasons:

- all classes have the same proficiency progression (instead in 3e every PrCl should define its own BAB and ST progression)
- all spellcasters are either "full" or "half" casters (instead in 3e every PrCl either advanced spellcasting of a previous class or had its own)
- classes and subclasses grant something at every level (instead in 3e there were empty levels also in PrCls)

The problem is (as I mentioned before) that not every single concept will easily fit in a feat chain or a subclass, so there is still room in 5e for prestige classes, at least in the form of custom material (as I said, I don't think they will ever be published).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

IMO the problem was that they didn't think it was necessary to have a system (that works), exactly because the original idea was more like "we came up with the concept of PrCl, but it's probably too awkward and few people will use it, so we present it as an optional DM-DIY tool". They did something similar with custom classes (see the Witch example) but people largely ignored that option, and designers also used it only a few years later and not in the same magnitude as PrCls.

I don't buy that they didn't think PrCs would be used much, given the splatbooks which came out almost immediately after 3E were stuffed to the gunnels with them.

 

[Thaumaturge]

My memory of events is that Monte Cook said, after the fact, prestige classes came up pretty late in the development of 3e. One of the reasons the text and the classes don't fit, presumably, is they had to rush a bit to get the idea in at all.

I think after they had the idea for them, the developers saw the possibility of selling PrCs in various books. But they didn't have the time to refine the system as much as they did other pieces of 3e.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't buy that they didn't think PrCs would be used much, given the splatbooks which came out almost immediately after 3E were stuffed to the gunnels with them.

I might be wrong of course, but basically what [MENTION=1927]Thaumaturge[/MENTION] says above is the same that I seem to remember Monte saying about PrCls.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I might be wrong of course, but basically what [MENTION=1927]Thaumaturge[/MENTION] says above is the same that I seem to remember Monte saying about PrCls.

Oh, I believe they were introduced late in 3E's development, but I think the reason they were added at all was that it was thought that they'd be hugely popular, not rarely used (otherwise, why take up so much space in the DMG on them? Just to pad it?), and that from the get-go, WotC wanted people buying books full of 'em (WotC's actions speak louder than their words, here), not carefully using their own unique ones in their campaigns.