So when D&D isn't for me, what is?

[Derren]

Over the last months I heard time and again that not only 4E does not support my gamestyle, but that the whole D&D brand doesn't (even though I was quite satisfied with 3E when you carefully regulate splatbooks).

So, when D&D isn't for me, what system is?
My requirements on a game system:

1. Primarily fantasy. Fantasy gaming should be the primary focus of the system. Having non fantasy setting books are ok, but not required

2. High/Low magic. Magic should be powerful both globally or in encounters/smaller scale. Yet magic should also be uncommon so that most commoners are likely never affected by it. Not like, say Eberron where magic is everywhere

3. Not too complex. A action should not require mor than two die rols to complete

4. Not gritty, but it should also be possible to play more normal stories than "Heroe saves the world" things

5. (related to 4). Combat should not be so deadly that the players are afraid to enter combat. But it should still be dangerous, so no "the players will always win without losses" assumptions

6. The game should not fall appart when you play it in a simulationist way and question things with were only included for coolness despite making no sense. At best, it should be easy to houserule them out.

7. (related to 6) The game shouldn't sacrifice too much believability for streamlining or, especialy, coolness

8. No buster swords, chainmail bikinis and other such nonsense

9. Combat should be more "down to earth" and not include many wuxia elements.

10. While combat should be covered rather well rules wise, doing something else than that should not require you to freeform. It doesn't need rules for everything, but at least should have such a framework which allows you to easily carft new "skills" (or whatever the system uses) to run a adventure with an uncommon focus

11. Believeable characters with strengths and weaknesses.

12. (related to 11) NPCs using the same system as PCs

13. (related to 12) It should be possible to play monsters, either out of the book or after small tweaking

14. Either classless or more open classes with good multiclass rules.

Thats what I can think of right now. I might later add more things.

So, what system fulfills most of that? I guess GURPS does, but I haven't looked at it yet. 3.5E was "good enough", too. But apparently I played D&D wrong.
What else?

 

[Charwoman Gene]

F.A.T.A.L.

Seriously, your style fits 3.5E fine, with reasonable use of rulings.

Unless you knew that and are making some sort of weird badwrongfun style troll what's the point of mentioning what people have wounded you about your style.

 

[Nagol]

Dozens.

I really enjoyed Ars Magica 2nd and 4th editions (though you couldn't play monsters).

Lace and Steel is fun, but again, no monster play.

Fantasy Hero is good, but it takes quite a bit of work in character creation and adventure prep.

Pendragon is fun, though player magic is very weak and the expected characters are limited in origin and desires.

From what I remember, Tunnels and Trolls hits most or all of the points.

Chivalry and Sorcery (red book) had monsters as an unlikely random chance.

 

[Nikosandros]

If you like D&D 3.5 why don't you just keep playing it?

Other systems I can suggest are GURPS, HERO and BRP.

 

[FourthBear]

Ooops, Piratecat below was quite right. Thanks!

 

[Reynard]

I think most of these things are more closely related to playstyle, setting and/or flavor-text than they are to system. Reading your list, the first thing that popped to mind was 2nd Edition AD&D with careful use of some of the Players Options elements. Failing that, a core based 3.x game with a few carefully considered third party supplements would also work fine. If you'd like to remove yourself from D&D entirely for whatever reason (maybe your is a group that only wants to play the "current edition" of any game or D&D in particular) I would suggest taking a look at HARP or MERP (RoleMaster is a good system, but probably crunchier than you want) or old-school Warhammer FRP (I am not familiar with the new version -- it may be a better fit).

Failing that, use a toolkit game like Hero, GURPS or d6 Fantasy and build the game you'd like to play/run.

 

[Derren]

I think most of these things are more closely related to playstyle, setting and/or flavor-text than they are to system. Reading your list, the first thing that popped to mind was 2nd Edition AD&D with careful use of some of the Players Options elements. Failing that, a core based 3.x game with a few carefully considered third party supplements would also work fine. If you'd like to remove yourself from D&D entirely for whatever reason (maybe your is a group that only wants to play the "current edition" of any game or D&D in particular) I would suggest taking a look at HARP or MERP (RoleMaster is a good system, but probably crunchier than you want) or old-school Warhammer FRP (I am not familiar with the new version -- it may be a better fit).

Failing that, use a toolkit game like Hero, GURPS or d6 Fantasy and build the game you'd like to play/run.

I just wondered, considering that so many people told me that D&D is the wrong system for me (or flat out said that I was playing D&D wrong) when I talked about what I want from a gaming system or why I think the new version of D&D is not a step forward in my eyes I wanted to know what other systems would fit my style.

PS: Can someone tell FourthBear that the reason he can't see my post is likely that I am on his ignore list?

 

[Mallus]

WFRP 2e sounds like a good fit, if a lighten the tone a wee bit (say by ignoring all the maiming combat results and disease effects).

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

If it's not D&D it's not worth it anyway. See what's on TV.

 

[Toben the Many]

What about Pathfinder. If you liked 3e, then this seems to be an easy fix.