So when D&D isn't for me, what is?

[Dragon Snack]

You could check out Savage Worlds, but it may fail on some of your criteria*. That can be compensated for, but if you're doing that with 3.x anyway it may not be worth the change.

*Some of the possible 'issues'...
1. it's not primarily fantasy, but could easily be so.
5. since it's more pulp action focused, combat isn't overly deadly - but I have seen characters die, so death is not impossible.
6. depends on how you define "simulationist".
11. you may have to watch some Edges available to your players.
12. while technically they do, only to an extent.

 

[Piratecat]

I can no longer see Derren's original thread-starting post, so it's possible that Derren withdrew it. If so, it's unlikely there's much point in continuing this thread.

More likely he's on your ignore list.

I'd lean towards Warhammer 2nd edition, although it may be a little gritty for you. Derren, how flexible are your players?

 

[Reynard]

I just wondered, considering that so many people told me that D&D is the wrong system for me (or flat out said that I was playing D&D wrong) when I talked about what I want from a gaming system or why I think the new version of D&D is not a step forward in my eyes I wanted to know what other systems would fit my style.

Is this theoretical or real. IOW, are you just looking for some kind of validation that 4E is different enough a D&D to warrant a change of game (if so, I think you'll find lots of agreement on both "sides" of the issue; 4E is different)? Or are you really looking for a game to actually run with an existing group of players?

 

[maddman75]

If it's not D&D it's not worth it anyway. See what's on TV.

D&D isn't all that. The current version is fun, but there's other games that do things in more interesting ways. Don't close yourself off.

I've always heard that Harnmaster might be the kind of thing you're looking for. Or as others said grab D6 Fantasy or Hero or GURPS and roll your own. Sorry I can't be more helpful, I'm more the pro cinematic anti simulationist guy, so I'm not as familiar with those games.

 

[Derren]

Is this theoretical or real. IOW, are you just looking for some kind of validation that 4E is different enough a D&D to warrant a change of game (if so, I think you'll find lots of agreement on both "sides" of the issue; 4E is different)? Or are you really looking for a game to actually run with an existing group of players?

A bit of both.
Theoretical: Many people say D&D is a bad system for what I want (See point 6 and 10). And while I am satisfied with 3.5, maybe they are right and there are better systems out there.
Practical: The 3e/4E split slowly makes my group dissolve (but that started before 4E, so it was not the editions fault), so a new system might allow the people who dislike 4E (me included) to purse another gaming system in addition to 3E D&D games which are kinda hard to find here (not many established D&D groups in general, even fewer which stuck with 3E/3.5E and new players want 4E because its new)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You didn´t play D&D wrong... All points you mention make sense. Some points you mentioned however are not covered well by D&D 3.5 or easily abusable:

Combat maneuvers and skill without equippment. Multiclass (more or less "fixed" with feats and prestige classes). Also creating NPCs like PCs is time consuming and in many cases problematic (itemdependancy) or redundant (die in 12 seconds of combat)

these things are better covered by 4e. The classes however do not favour your playstyle... a mix of 3rd and 4th edition could actually give you what you want...: use the math of 4th edition with feat progression etc, use attack and defense bonus of 1/2 level (to saving throws and AC) and add +x bonuses to classes, who should be good at combat... give out secondary attacks with the same attack bonus or a cumulative -2 when classes would normall get them.

should work quite well, adjust monsters accordingly

 

[Nagol]

D&D isn't all that. The current version is fun, but there's other games that do things in more interesting ways. Don't close yourself off.

I've always heard that Harnmaster might be the kind of thing you're looking for. Or as others said grab D6 Fantasy or Hero or GURPS and roll your own. Sorry I can't be more helpful, I'm more the pro cinematic anti simulationist guy, so I'm not as familiar with those games.

Harnmaster has very gritty combat. Magic is also really common -- iirc, 10% of human females can cast spells.

 

[Derren]

You didn´t play D&D wrong... All points you mention make sense. Some points you mentioned however are not covered well by D&D 3.5 or easily abusable:

Combat maneuvers and skill without equippment. Multiclass (more or less "fixed" with feats and prestige classes). Also creating NPCs like PCs is time consuming and in many cases problematic (itemdependancy) or redundant (die in 12 seconds of combat)

these things are better covered by 4e. The classes however do not favour your playstyle... a mix of 3rd and 4th edition could actually give you what you want...: use the math of 4th edition with feat progression etc, use attack and defense bonus of 1/2 level (to saving throws and AC) and add +x bonuses to classes, who should be good at combat...

should work well

Actually, most of the things you call a problem in 3.5E are things which I think are better in the previous edition than in 4E.

Not related to your post, but I would rather have a system which allows the player to do (nearly) everything he wants and the DM is responsible to keep it balanced and that everyone has fun than a system that creates balance but the DM has to houserule heavily whenever the players want to do something which is not part of the default assumptions of the system.

 

[avin]

No offense, Op, but you are over 1600 posts, I bet you know a few games to play and this looks just theoretical...

If don't, try GURPS Fantasy

 

[moritheil]

As you pointed out, 4E is not simulationist. It's an engine for playing a game wherein you smash baddies. And that's great if that's all you want to do, but for worldbuilding you have to revert to 3E.

For the systems I am conversant with I will now apply your criteria:

Exalted - well, you don't like magic everywhere, so this is probably out. Also it has a lot of ridiculous things put in because they are cool. So yes, out.

In Nomine - it is very simple, but it isn't something that is simulationist. It relies heavily on a GM's grasp of verisimilitude and world flavor. GMming it was very rough for me the first time because I didn't have a great feel for that.

White Wolf (Mage/Vampire/Changeling/Object: the Verbing) - probably isn't what you want in terms of settings and power levels.