So when D&D isn't for me, what is?

[Ourph]

I'm a big fan of WFRP 2e but I'm going to disagree witht he suggestions that it fits your criteria for three main reasons.

1. If you're looking for a system that rewards willingness to engage in combat on about the same level as low to mid-level D&D 3.5, WFRP isn't it. Avoiding combat as much as possible is the primary strategy for staying alive and unmaimed in WFRP.

2. If you are looking for a system that supports playing "monstrous" PCs as easily as D&D 3.5, again, WFRP isn't going to do much for you. It's entirely possible to create monstrous PCs, but the rulebooks don't provide much support for it (beyond very specific instances like the Skaven supplement that has rules for playing Skaven or the Chaos supplement with rules for playing Chaos Warriors). Unfortuantely, those options aren't really balanced for integration with normal PCs. They work fine if you want to run an all Skaven or all Chaos campaign, but if you try to include a Kirgon character in a group of normal PCs, you'll have all kinds of problems. Figuring out how to balance such a situation is a major headache.

3. There are plenty of over-the-top elements included in the core of the game. Maybe not buster swords or chainmail bikinis, but magical handguns, alchemical chaos grenades and other wierdness abound. It's possible to take those things out I suppose, but it's an added step that makes WFRP a less attractive option.

I would suggest d20 Conan, with perhaps a few core 3.5 D&D classes thrown in if you want a little more magic (like the Warlock or the Bard).

 

[Primal]

Derren,

like others have suggested, WFRP 2nd Edition might work for you, if you replace the crits with some sort of houserule (e.g. you die when you are at negative amount of Wounds). The setting is absolutely great, if you're into Dark Fantasy spiced with humour.

However, I'd also suggest Burning Wheel by Luke Crane -- it's a great and simple system, which allows for a lot of customization. It *is* a bit rules-heavy, but then again, so is D&D. The combat and debate systems are certainly unique.

Then there's Conspiracy of Shadows, which is basically a "narrativist" fantasy RPG about conspiracies (each campaign begins by designing the conspiracy). The combat system is "gamist", though. The implied setting is Slavic in nature, but it is very well written -- and it's easy to change if you prefer more "generic" fantasy (i.e. it is not "hardwired" into the mechanics).

I'd also like to mention Epic RPG as a potential "candidate", but I don't know much about it -- it may be too "gritty" for your taste? Also, if you're willing to try non-traditional "narrativist" RPGs, try Dogs in the Vineyard or Polaris -- I can't even recommend them enough (the latter, though being a "Mormon Western" RPG, can easily be tweaked to work as a fantasy RPG -- and, in fact, Princes' Kingdom *is* a fairy tale/fantasy "mod" of DitV).

EDIT: Fantasy Hero and GURPS which were both suggested by others are both also great games which I would recommend for you.

 

[Treebore]

You could do what I did:

RPGNow.com - Troll Lord Games - Castle &Crusades Quick Start Rules

I used this as my "core" and then modified, house ruled, and stole rules from other editions of D&D that I like, from OD&D up to and including 4E, and the last three years of my gaming have been the best they have been since I started playing back in 1985.

To give you an idea of company support, most fo the following is also available in print:

RPGNow.com - Troll Lord Games - - The leading source for indie RPGs

If you get interested and want to explore house rules the forums are very friendly and helpful:

Troll Lord Games :: View Forum - Castles & Crusades Online

Plus there is a fair amount of house rule stuff posted here:

Castles&Crusades Player Site

Edit:

In case your interested in what they have coming in the future, here is their on line catalogue:

http://www.trolllord.com/catalog/index.html


Plus, if you do get interested, you'll find the company website worth knowing about:

http://www.trolllord.com/

 

[Treebore]

Derren,

like others have suggested, WFRP 2nd Edition might work for you, if you replace the crits with some sort of houserule (e.g. you die when you are at negative amount of Wounds). The setting is absolutely great, if you're into Dark Fantasy spiced with humour.

However, I'd also suggest Burning Wheel by Luke Crane -- it's a great and simple system, which allows for a lot of customization. It *is* a bit rules-heavy, but then again, so is D&D. The combat and debate systems are certainly unique.

Then there's Conspiracy of Shadows, which is basically a "narrativist" fantasy RPG about conspiracies (each campaign begins by designing the conspiracy). The combat system is "gamist", though. The implied setting is Slavic in nature, but it is very well written -- and it's easy to change if you prefer more "generic" fantasy (i.e. it is not "hardwired" into the mechanics).

I'd also like to mention Epic RPG as a potential "candidate", but I don't know much about it -- it may be too "gritty" for your taste? Also, if you're willing to try non-traditional "narrativist" RPGs, try Dogs in the Vineyard or Polaris -- I can't even recommend them enough (the latter, though being a "Mormon Western" RPG, can easily be tweaked to work as a fantasy RPG -- and, in fact, Princes' Kingdom *is* a fairy tale/fantasy "mod" of DitV).

EDIT: Fantasy Hero and GURPS which were both suggested by others are both also great games which I would recommend for you.

EPICrpg is definitely worth a look, there is a LOT I like about it. If I wasn't having so much fun with my C&C games I would likely be playing EPICrpg instead.

 

[Primal]

Oh, and I almost forgot: if you liked 3E, Pathfinder RPG may actually be a good choice for you.

 

[Angellis_ater]

My suggestions goes towards True20 and/or Savage Worlds. SW is more "combat friendly" but both systems give you most of what you want.

 

[Sadrik]

You could check out Savage Worlds, but it may fail on some of your criteria*. That can be compensated for, but if you're doing that with 3.x anyway it may not be worth the change.

*Some of the possible 'issues'...
1. it's not primarily fantasy, but could easily be so.
5. since it's more pulp action focused, combat isn't overly deadly - but I have seen characters die, so death is not impossible.
6. depends on how you define "simulationist".
11. you may have to watch some Edges available to your players.
12. while technically they do, only to an extent.

Savage Worlds, it is sliced bread man, really. Fast, Fun and Furious is the slogan for the game.
In particular check out:
Sundered Skies, Shaintar and Evernight

Those are all fantasy settings for the game. I particularly like the plot-point campaigns in the setting books of which the three I mentioned above have.

There are also many many fan conversions for D&D and even a Pathfinder conversion.

 

[S'mon]

I'm running D&D 3.5 exactly like this.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Derren,

DSA 4 is the current edition

and the core mechanics are the same as in DSA 2

3 rolls for each skill, attack and parry in combat

 

[S'mon]

I just wondered, considering that so many people told me that D&D is the wrong system for me (or flat out said that I was playing D&D wrong) when I talked about what I want from a gaming system or why I think the new version of D&D is not a step forward in my eyes I wanted to know what other systems would fit my style.

Best to just ignore those people. And for that matter, ignore the 3e DMG advice when it tells you not to have cities with peasants who've never seen magic. The game works fine as a rare-but-powerful magic setting.