WotC So, when do the announce the July book? Guesses on what it'll be? 🤔

[delericho]

The 3e Book of Vile Darkness, plus FRs Champions of Ruin were for mature audiences. As was Book of Exalted Deeds and Champions of Valor.

True, but that was a fairly long time ago.

They weren’t really about boobs...

It's more a general observation than about those specific books, really. I've become very sceptical of claims that something is "mature".

I thought it was quite a sensible way to publish it actually.

Agreed.

 

[delericho]

Regarding Muls, specifically: it's worth noting that the 4e version of Dark Sun already omits the comment about them being sterile - there's simply no mention of it. It does imply, though stops short of outright stating, that many Muls are the result of enforced breeding, though that could be fixed with a rewrite of a single sentence. (That said, there's also a comment that the DM might have Mul characters start as enslaved people. That will definitely want a change!)

It's also worth noting that the 4e version of the setting is pretty heavily focused on Tyr, the one free city where slavery is not practiced. If WotC want to get away from the "slavery tourism" aspect (which would be good), that might be as simple as keeping that focus on Tyr and advancing the timeline by a generation or so - given that the key antagonists are all immortal, even that doesn't require major surgery to the setting.

All of which assumes that they do want to bring back the setting - given other options, they may just want to do something else instead.

 

[Bitbrain]

Regarding Muls, specifically: it's worth noting that the 4e version of Dark Sun already omits the comment about them being sterile - there's simply no mention of it. It does imply, though stops short of outright stating, that many Muls are the result of enforced breeding, though that could be fixed with a rewrite of a single sentence. (That said, there's also a comment that the DM might have Mul characters start as enslaved people. That will definitely want a change!)

It's also worth noting that the 4e version of the setting is pretty heavily focused on Tyr, the one free city where slavery is not practiced. If WotC want to get away from the "slavery tourism" aspect (which would be good), that might be as simple as keeping that focus on Tyr and advancing the timeline by a generation or so - given that the key antagonists are all immortal, even that doesn't require major surgery to the setting.

This is the direction I go in my Dark Sun games. I just declare that muls can breed true and therefore have kids.

I also removed the dwarves, because I think it makes the muls a more interesting playable race if they are the half-human descendants of a long-dead species. Dwarvenkind’s heirs, as it were.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

If my memory doesn't fail, in the 4th Ed muls from Dark Sun could breed. In my stories I imagine most of them as infertile, at least without special "help" or medicines, but sometimes they can engender a new generation, and this the next one with a piece of luck. How was possible in Athas? Creating a subrace of humans compatible with grafts of dwarf tissues, and a dwarf subrace compatible with grafts of human tissues (the sorcerer-kings had got enough time to investigate about how to transplante living organs). Then both subraces with some little retouchs more were enough genetically compatible to breed fertile muls.

Parthenogenesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gynogenesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Klepton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hopeless]

Villain's design handbook I seem to recall from the Kingdoms of Kalamar line went along those lines.
Found it rather useful for the creation of a couple of villains for that setting.

Gill Athena was the name of one of them.

I really need to dig around and see if I still have their stats and back story somewhere...

 

[Parmandur]

Actually, given that demographic chart, and given also the colossus that was "Game of Thrones" just a few years ago, I'm a little surprised that WotC haven't done at least something in a more adult vein.

Obviously, that's not something they'd put in the core - they'd need to mark it very clearly as being for more mature audiences. But I would have thought something like a revived Birthright, with a rather harder edge to it, could be a success. (Or, failing that, set up a more mature adjunct to the DM's Guild, and open up Birthright and/or Dark Sun for development there, or something like that - the Star to their Disney+.)

(On the other hand, "for mature audiences" seems to mostly mean "includes boobs and blood". In which case, I would pass anyway...)

Why aim low at GoT numbers, when they can aim higher at Marvel Cinematic Universe numbers? Make something for everyone.

They did cite Game of Thrones as an influence on Volo's Guide to Monsters when they came out, for what it is worth.

 

[Parmandur]

The 3e Book of Vile Darkness, plus FRs Champions of Ruin were for mature audiences. As was Book of Exalted Deeds and Champions of Valor.

They weren’t really about boobs, aside from a little about Grazzt. Not so much about blood and gore either. More corruption, drugs, martyrdoom, sadomasochism, possession, penitence etc. There were lots of topics in there that normal D&D skirted around but we’re separated into a separate product with a warning.

I thought it was quite a sensible way to publish it actually.

And guess what? Those books sold terribly. Bad business.

 

[hopeless]

Well this thread got me wondering about how to play an LE character who believes they're damned but elects to help others thinking since they're beyond saving that doesn't mean they can't save others from the same fate...

 

[tetrasodium]

Well this thread got me wondering about how to play an LE character who believes they're damned but elects to help others thinking since they're beyond saving that doesn't mean they can't save others from the same fate...

LE characters are easy. Pick the most pure goody two shoes god guy & do the things they won't do while keeping close enough to what is expected of society for that good guy to still be willing to drink with you. Don't do it because the character craves the evil, do it because you doubt yourself & doing it reassures you that you can still have a place among these normal people. In short, be an antihero like so. Talk to your gm about it because it's not always easy to fit a game.

 

[darjr]

Well this thread got me wondering about how to play an LE character who believes they're damned but elects to help others thinking since they're beyond saving that doesn't mean they can't save others from the same fate...

Illrigger!