WotC So, when do the announce the July book? Guesses on what it'll be? 🤔

[Parmandur]

I think we're talking about three levels (or more, but for simplicity's sake) of "thematic maturity:"

One, vanilla D&D.

Two, low fantasy/sword & sorcery/grimdark. This would include Conan, GoT, post-apocalyptic themes, Dark Sun.

Three, gratuitous/explicitly dark/edgy themes. Book of Vile Darkness, Erotic Fantasy, etc.

The first is the baseline of the core product line. It is listed as 12+, so the implication is borderline PG-13 due to the emphasis on violence and perhaps various concepts that aren't for kids younger than middle school, with the caveat that many kids start playing earlier. But this, at least, gives us a sense of what WotC has in mind.

I would think that the second category would be implied at "14 or 15+" and the third "18+" but of course we haven't seen any such products in the current edition.

The question, then, is there anything intrinsically wrong or overly problematic with WotC having some products in the "15+" category? And if so, should they label it as such? Would that diminish sales enough to make it prohibitive for publication, even if the vast majority of players are 15 and older or simply ignore such guidelines?

I would think 18+ products are a niche market and for that reason alone--limited sales--WotC wouldn't bother with any of the resulting hassles. While I haven't scoured DM's Guild for such material, I'm sure it exists.

But I don't think it would be economically prohibitive to have some products labeled as 15+ or 14+. I mean, there's a huge fan-base for grimdark, and even stuff that isn't overtly grimdark can incorporate more mature, be it slavery or complex politics or environmental themes or simply sword & sorcery.

(I don't think sword & sorcery is inherently for more mature audiences only, but I can see why they'd label it as such. But the question is, should they create sword & sorcery products in the spirit of the tradition, or make "child-friendly" sword & sorcery that may lose something in translation?)

From WotC perspective, there is no upside to doing that. Brand consistency is an important consideration, and as long as people 8-40+ are buying products, there is no incentive to change the brand image.

Descent to Avernus is about as edgy as Dungeons & Dragons will likely get.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

D&D is +13, or at least the DM should be +13 because d20 may be too complex for a preteen. The right product for them is the new "Hero Quest".

* In the cartoon for children "Conan the adventurer", in the ep 2 of 1st season, "the blood brother", Conan starts as a galley slave, where he meet his main friend and ally, the prince Zula.

 

[TheSword]

Either Nate Stewart or Ryan Dancer, most likely, but I can't point to where, they said a lot. I remember the what, not the where.

However, the results speak for themselves: that line fizzled out completely, and WotC doesn't make anything like it. If it sold well, they would.

What do you mean, the line fizzled out? They released book of vile darkness and it was successful they then released 3 books that followed up the themes over the next four years. That suggests to me the first book wasn’t a flop.

I also recall a very good Dungeon adventure based on it.

I’ve seen reviews saying the book was the best supplement released for 3e to date.

That's not the point. It didn't do well for WotC bottom line, which is why the line fizzled out before I started playing the game.

If you weren’t even playing D&D then, do you think you’re best placed to pass judgement on the book?

There are lots of 3e products that were very popular that haven’t yet been released for 5e. It’s early days.

 

[Mercurius]

From WotC perspective, there is no upside to doing that. Brand consistency is an important consideration, and as long as people 8-40+ are buying products, there is no incentive to change the brand image.

Descent to Avernus is about as edgy as Dungeons & Dragons will likely get.

OK, and that seems to fit into the middle category somewhat. But yeah, I don't think they will ever label anything "15+" or even "14+," but I do think they will (and maybe have) publish stuff that fits into that category.

 

[hopeless]

I'm beginning to wonder if they're right about Dragonlance being released later this year.

I doubt they will release a new Book of Vile Darkness or Exalted Deeds unless its related to whatever new series or movie being planned.

I actually thought the new Feywild adventure in the Neverwinter MMO was a sign of one of those new releases, but if they do that now it will need its own niche.

The latest Unearthed arcane is apparently about new dragonborn, since the gothic lineages was Ravenloft orientated does that support a Dragonlance or Council of Wyrms release?

 

[Mercurius]

I doubt they will release a new Book of Vile Darkness or Exalted Deeds unless its related to whatever new series or movie being planned.

I don't think anyone is expecting (or many even really hoping for) a BoVD, even ED. I may be wrong, but the first seemed to be piggy-backing on the "evil is kewl" and grimdark vibe that was rising in fantasy lit around that time, and of course the ongoing popularity of White Wolf stuff.

 

[hopeless]

And the D&D movie of the same name.

 

[Stormonu]

It wasn't called the "Book of Exalted Cheese" for nothing. I was one of the DMs that didn't like the book not because of its tenor (I am a lover of LG paladins), but because of the sheer power creep in its pages. Unfortunately, I remember very little about its opposite - Book of Vile Darkness, other than being unimpressed enough with it to not use its contents, even for NPCs.

And I still use Chaotic evil orcs, Neutral evil goblins and Lawful evil Kobolds copiously in my games.

 

[teitan]

Either Nate Stewart or Ryan Dancer, most likely, but I can't point to where, they said a lot. I remember the what, not the where.

However, the results speak for themselves: that line fizzled out completely, and WotC doesn't make anything like it. If it sold well, they would.

Well the BoVD sold well enough that WOTC published the Book of Exalted Deeds. BoVD suffered for being released close enough to 3.5 that when 3.5 came out and it was more than just a simple revision, more like what would have been a major edition change like 1e to 2e in previous years, it hit the sales a bit because that meant some of the core concepts needed conversion. The BoED was a bad book but was even marketed in reference to BoVD as a sequel. I don’t see WOTC marketing it that way if BoVD sold poorly. Anecdotally BoVD was one I had a difficult time keeping in at the store. The BoVD was released in October of 02 and 3.5 was only 8 months later. 3.5 revision also hurt sales of Ghostwalk.

Dancey had left WOTC late 2002 during a round of layoffs at the company so he could anecdotally be cited for speculation but he has been demonstrated to be quite wrong a lot of the time in the eras following his release from the company.

what he can be trusted on is the Book of Erotic Fantasy which was a garbage book that warmed shelves like a Princess Leia in the early 80s. He independently published that train wreck and it was inspired content wise by BoVD as a sort of nerdy sex book version. I mean how many times do you have to put OGL compliant on the cover???

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

Expect we'll get an announcement sometime in May. Likely be an adventure. The summer product is always an adventure. The big storyline with miniatures n junk. Probably also doubling as a guide book to a region.
No idea what that'll be. Most of my guesses have been wrong. Nobody expected RIME OF THE FROSTMAIDEN
If I hadta guess, I'd go something less focused on the F-Realms. No unique gods and less focus on the world to make it easier to move elsewhere. A big adventure with the githzeri, githyanki, and mind flayers seems due. Abberations be one of the few villain groups that haven't had the spotlight