So when should a publisher ditch d20 and develop their own system?

[Turjan]

Funnily enough, I think the problem is the IP-owners. WEG did more for the Star Wars IP than anyone besides Lucasfilm. They effectively diversified the universe so that it became a flexible playground for almost anyone. I think if a smart company saw how RPG competencies allow them to expand their IPs, they'd stay hands off and allow RPGs as forerunners to other spinoffs, so that the games serve as effective bibles. These companies don't seem to understand how to build robust worlds out of what's implied by the shows.

I agree. Also KotOR was like a fountain of youth for the IP and brought many disenchanted players back into the fold. Most films or TV series have only very limited background, compared to what you need for a successful RPG. There must be some room for development, otherwise the game will get stale pretty quickly.

 

[Umbran]

These companies don't seem to understand how to build robust worlds out of what's implied by the shows.

Or, "building robust worlds" may not be their goal.

 

[Glyfair]

Well, if you want us to go out of business because we gave away thousands and thousands of 128-160 page books, sure, we could do that.

The idea would be to price the core book at a price that subsumes the cost of both books. Of course, that leaves out the people who want to buy the core book only with no rules.

As I said, I don't think it's logistically possible now.

We haven't released any True20 adventures yet. I can, however, compare the Sanctuary book to another city book, Freedom City for Mutants & Masterminds. That book sold three times as well as Shadowspawn's Guide to Sanctuary and again it's a property that we created from scratch.

I think using an M&M is product again making a bad comparison. M&M seems to me to be one of the two dominant superhero RPGs out there (maybe the dominant RPG). That adds a factor that makes the comparison meaningless.

 

[Glyfair]

Well, looking at http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/FireflyGaming you can see that nonSerenity systems have no more than 1 dedicated link or group of links (like the Unknown Armies conversion), while the Serenity RPG has multiple links, including campaign reports and this:

http://wavesintheblack.aimoo.com/

an active web community for the game.

This only necessarily says that the RPG players who want a different system don't want to put in that much effort. What part of that community considers the system to be a great fit and what percentage are just using it because that's what they have?

Or, "building robust worlds" may not be their goal.

Or may not be part of their licensing deal.

 

[eyebeams]

Or, "building robust worlds" may not be their goal.

If they want to diversify the prospects of the property, it should be, especially now that we know that hierarchical canonicity (a la SW G-Canon, et al) is an acceptable way to manage these things.

 

[eyebeams]

This only necessarily says that the RPG players who want a different system don't want to put in that much effort. What part of that community considers the system to be a great fit and what percentage are just using it because that's what they have?

Actually, if it's too much effort to adapt another system, than that means that the Serenity RPG *is* a superior fit. "Less annoying" is equivalent to "better."

Or may not be part of their licensing deal.

I was talking about the licensor, not the licensee.

 

[GlassJaw]

Licenses that hit their peaks 25 years ago, endless retreads of the same old same old (pulp, pirates, supers), these are all trotted out in front of a generation of gamers that simply doesn't care. In most cases, the question of d20 or not is irrelevant, since the game or license is dead out of the gate.

Bitter much?

I think that was largely uncalled for, and inaccurate.

So what is WotC doing to change the "state of the game"? Not much from what I've seen. The bright spots (Red Hand of Doom for example) are getting more and more difficult to see among an endless churn of splatbooks, crunch, and historical retreads (as Chris mentioned).

I think your take on licenses is misguided as well. Supers and pirates "same old, same old"? Last I checked, some of the highest grossing movies of the last fews years are exactly these genres. If anything, Green Ronin has been vastly more innovative in the RPG market than WotC, Freeport and MnM are two wonderful examples of that.

 

[Glyfair]

Actually, if it's too much effort to adapt another system, than that means that the Serenity RPG *is* a superior fit. "Less annoying" is equivalent to "better."

No, it doesn't. The end user is the person who should be adapting another system, it should be the game designers. If I buy a campaign supplement and am given a system I feel I don't want to use, but feel the work is too much to use a "better fitting" system, that's bad.

 

[MerricB]

So what is WotC doing to change the "state of the game"? Not much from what I've seen. The bright spots (Red Hand of Doom for example) are getting more and more difficult to see among an endless churn of splatbooks, crunch, and historical retreads (as Chris mentioned).

There is a big difference between maintaining D&D and entering the market with a new RPG.

Cheers!

 

[GlassJaw]

There is a big difference between maintaining D&D and entering the market with a new RPG.

There's also a big difference between maintaining with new and innovative concepts than same old, same old.