So, who has played a Warlock?

[Gnome]

Thanks everyone. I'm not the one thinking of playing a warlock (not my cup of tea), but I have a player for a new game I'll be starting that is thinking of doing so. If he does, I'll pass along some of these suggestions.

 

[Glyfair]

If you mean additional published material, very little. The PHBII gives an alternate class feature at 8th level, but it's not particularly impressive (essentially a 1/day fire shield-style effect instead of Fiendish Resilience).

However, Complete Mage, due out in October, will feature new material for Warlocks.

Keith Baker also has produced some bits and pieces in Dragon Eberron articles. There is at least one invocation intended for worshippers of the Cults of hte Dragon Below. and his article on the Umbragen (a drow offshoot that appears in the Dragonshard computer game) has a couple of bits and pieces.

 

[WarlockLord]

Don't forget the four in Magic of Incarnum. The one wher you can invest essentia to boost damge looks good.

 

[taferial]

Another quick question or two...

As Maximise SLA only maximises spells 6 levels lover than you, and Eldritch blast is caster level divided by two. Are those of you who took it at 6th, taking it then and waiting for lvl 12 to use it? or has your GM altered the feat so you can use it at full power from the get-go (and what arguments did you use)?

Im loath to use my 6th lvl feat and see no benifit for 6 levels but if you guys think its worth it...

I would take Flyby attack or Improved flight, but the order of level-up means I dont chose an invocation till after Ive chosen a feat, meaning I cant fly when I chose the 6th lvl feat. My GM tends to be inflexible on these things. We did decide on a 3rd lvl for me after taking Supernatural transformation off me (a house feat similar to Communicator from Comp Arcane) that lets me Identify once a day. But now im stuck for a useful 6th levl, as I wasnt looking past the XXX spell-like.

We're useing an xp-less system so all creation feats are a no-go, im realy starting to dread leveling up these days, evrytime I think Im sorted I fall over another rule I didnt Interpret correctly.

all help gratefully recieved

 

[MarkB]

Another quick question or two...

As Maximise SLA only maximises spells 6 levels lover than you, and Eldritch blast is caster level divided by two. Are those of you who took it at 6th, taking it then and waiting for lvl 12 to use it? or has your GM altered the feat so you can use it at full power from the get-go (and what arguments did you use)?

The Complete Arcane errata change Eldritch Blast's equivalent spell level to be 1st level if un-augmented, and the level of the highest-level invocation if augmented with an eldritch essence and/or blast shape invocation. Without this alteration, it would actually never be possible for a single-class warlock to benefit from the Metamagic Spell-like Ability feats (which is why they changed it).

With the change, you can benefit from Maximise or Empower from 6th level.

I would take Flyby attack or Improved flight, but the order of level-up means I dont chose an invocation till after Ive chosen a feat, meaning I cant fly when I chose the 6th lvl feat.

Are you certain? My impression was that feats were chosen last, or very late in the progression, precisely in order to allow one to meet their prerequisites with features gained at that level.

We're useing an xp-less system so all creation feats are a no-go, im realy starting to dread leveling up these days, evrytime I think Im sorted I fall over another rule I didnt Interpret correctly.

all help gratefully recieved

Presumably even in an XP-less system, items are created by someone. Ask your DM if he can work out some alternate game mechanics - temporary stat penalties or negative levels, or some such.

 

[taferial]

thanks MarkB, Ill head into the next session armed with your information.

Apreciate the help.

 

[Bagpuss]

Are you certain? My impression was that feats were chosen last, or very late in the progression, precisely in order to allow one to meet their prerequisites with features gained at that level.

Actually I don't think offically there is an order in which you get things, say a 6th level feat allowed entry to a prestige class you have enough xp for 6th level, you earn the feat then use it to access the prestige class. Or in the case of the Warlock, you level you earn the invocation and then you use the feat based on the invocation you've just earned.

 

[MarkB]

Actually I don't think offically there is an order in which you get things, say a 6th level feat allowed entry to a prestige class you have enough xp for 6th level, you earn the feat then use it to access the prestige class.

No, I'm pretty certain that can't be done, specifically because you choose your class first. But I was fairly sure it was the other way around with feats.

I believe the "order of effects" the OP mentioned is the list on page 58 of the PHB. In that case, choosing spells (and thus invocations) does indeed come after choosing feats. If strictly enforced, that does make things more difficult.

Or in the case of the Warlock, you level you earn the invocation and then you use the feat based on the invocation you've just earned.

Of course, a super-strict DM could still disallow it, because the character doesn't acquire a Fly speed until he actually casts the invocation, and he can only do that after he finishes levelling up. That's stricter than I'd want to be, though.

 

[Particle_Man]

1) Get a buddy mage to cast fly on you, just as you are leveling up.
2) Take the relevant flying feat.
3) Take the invokation Fell Flight.

Could that work?

 

[Nonlethal Force]

1) Get a buddy mage to cast fly on you, just as you are leveling up.

Could that work?

Not in any of the games that I play in. My group views leveling as a long process, not an instantaneous one. To put it in a mathematical concept, it is a linear progression - not a step function. There is no definitive moment in our games that a player can say "My character became X level here."

Thus, magical items that give non-permanent effects, spell (or spell-like) affects, and the like never enable a character to qualify for a PrC (unless the PrC prerequisites say otherwise)

I believe this is how the spirit of the RAW works - although I could be wrong. I certainly do know DMs who look past this and allow things like spell effects and magic items to allow a player to qualify for a PrC.