D&D General Social Pillar Mechanics: Where do you stand?

[Crimson Longinus]

I have said it about 100 times in this thread: it is for things like a trial or a formal courtly intrigue scenario or negotiating with powerful entities or factions.

How are these not normal conversations, or series of them? Perhaps a trial isn't, as that indeed has formal structure diegetically as well, but it also isn't something that comes up often enough to warrant a subsystem. (I literally cannot remember ever roleplaying a trial. Perhaps it has happened at some point over decades and I have forgotten.)

 

[Voadam]

But even then - as you yourself note, in combat you have players who don't look beyond a limited number of specified actions, and they don't try freeform social interactions.

I am sure there are people who never try freeform social interactions and do not go beyond using mechanical options in the combat mini game either.

But I think most people, whether they freeform social or not use the mechanical options in combat as opposed to trying to improv their combat outside of the normal attack, maneuver, and spell options of D&D combat.

I know I do a bunch of freeform social stuff but usually stay within the defined mechanical options of D&D combat for my combat actions.

 

[Maxperson]

On this I agree completely. (for these purposes let's ignore mind-control magics)

However, the flip side is and IMO has to be that the players thus shouldn't be able to dictate GM choices when it comes to the NPCs. Otherwise it's neither symmetrical nor internally setting-consistent.

Conclusion: take all these social mechanics ideas, tie a big heavy rock to them, and throw them off a ship at sea somewhere.

Not symmetrical, yes. Internally inconsistent in the setting, no. In the setting PC talks to NPC and convinces him to do X. In the setting NPC talks to PC and convinces him to do X. Both are internally consistent within the setting. That there are mechanics involved with the PC's persuasion, but only the player deciding with the NPC's persuasion doesn't change that internal setting consistency.

 

[Maxperson]

I challenge you to perform a major criminal trial at the table.

Why would that be hard?

 

[Reynard]

Why would that be hard?

Is everyone you play with a trial lawyer?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Why would that be hard?

I think it might be somewhat hard, but not due the mechanics. You would need to research the structure and procedures of a criminal trial.

 

[Reynard]

I think it might be somewhat hard, but not due the mechanics. You would need to research the structure and procedures of a criminal trial.

Or you could use a mechanical subsystem designed to approximate that thing in a fun way, like we do with literally every other aspect of the game.

 

[Maxperson]

I think it might be somewhat hard, but not due the mechanics. You would need to research the structure and procedures of a criminal trial.

Why? You don't need that level of detail in an RPG. Combats don't include parrying, riposte, slowed reaction times due to bleeding from cuts, halved movement from a moderate stab wound to the leg, and on and on. Real life level of detail just isn't necessary.

What I would need to do is roleplay any witnesses, the prosecutor, the judge, a bailiff or guards, and possibly a defender. The PCs may or may not have a defender, depending on the nature of the government, and if there is a PC not on trial, a PC may step into the role of defender.

From there it's just roleplaying and presenting the evidence. A PC defender might get social skill rolls when appropriate at DCs set by me depending on the situation.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Or you could use a mechanical subsystem designed to approximate that thing in a fun way, like we do with literally every other aspect of the game.

Unless you want a context free dice rolling exercise, you still need to have the fiction. And once you have the fiction, assigning mechanics is relatively easy. We just have formal structure of who tries to convince whom about what, and when and in what order. But these are all dictated by the procedure of the fictional trial, not by the mechanics.

 

[Maxperson]

Is everyone you play with a trial lawyer?

Not necessary. See my above post.