Sociopathic PCs -- an epidemic?

[hong]

I also think that many players just find the "dangerous lone wolf" archetype, a la Wolverine, to be very cool, no matter how stereotyped it has become.

Also the Man With No Name, and Caine (from Kung Fu), and Conan, and Red Sonja, and Waylander the Slayer, and the Bride, and Nameless (from Hero). The loner who exists outside normal society is a very, very widespread archetype in all sorts of genres.

Besides, just because someone _starts_ with no links to society doesn't mean they have to _stay_ that way. In play, they're presumably going to come into contact with NPCs who help them, sell them things, give them hints, train them, and so on. There's plenty of fodder there to integrate characters into the world. A huge backstory is just one way to achieve this.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Besides, just because someone _starts_ with no links to society doesn't mean they have to _stay_ that way. In play, they're presumably going to come into contact with NPCs who help them, sell them things, give them hints, train them, and so on. There's plenty of fodder there to integrate characters into the world. A huge backstory is just one way to achieve this.

WOO! TESTIFY!

I don't have nearly so much of a problem with the guys who don't have much character history. I have a problem with the guy who has 10 pages of detailed history that explain WHY he has no friends, that his family is on the other end of the earth, and sets a behavior precident for avoiding as much human contact as possible.

Does anyone here have the problem with the guy who isn't an orphan, and has friends, he just never actually tells you about them?

 

[Haradim]

Such characters are fairly common amongst people I've played with as well.

I've often thought of how to curtail this character aspect - not so much the 'traumatic' (it usually isn't) background, but the intentional distancing from everything (even other PCs...often leading to situations where the character is only in the party because the DM forced them to be, and to stay there).

I've come to the conclusion that the 'positive reinforcement' mentioned above is really the only good way to fight against this archetype. What I'm planning to do for my own future games is to simply try and make 'the world' more interactive. Friends and family will try to keep in touch with characters, and will often be happy to help them out when they can (even if it's as simple as given them a place to crash). Allies and mentors will be available to provide advice or resources if sought after, and sometimes even if not. Miscellaneous characters will try to becomes friends and allies, be it in search of romance, or adventure themselves, or out of a percieved debt, etc. And all these character might indeed end up threatened by enemies or turned against the characters, but I hope that the effect of these interactions is such that it isn't the 'out of the blue' situation that often happens when DMs do use the important people in a PC's life. These other characters (and places, or things) won't simply be forgotten until they appear in danger or as an enemy, those situations will unfold before the players' eyes, and due to their interactions and what they are doing. As such, I hope that even if I do decide to use a brother as an [insert evil villain here], they will care about it because they've been actively involved with the character...or even caused it to happen in the first place, and they know it. And it won't be just a matter of yoinking the free, cliche plot hook.

That's the goal, anyway. I'm also hoping it will encourage more 'talkie' roleplay in general. It seems like a somewhat daunting task, but having these friends and family as active participants in the game, rather than mostly ignored names on paper, strikes me as a way to move away from the 'avoid society at all costs' archetype, while providing some interesting gameplay to present to the loner types, and everyone else.

So I guess I agree with Bendris, hong, etc I hope that this little experiment bears fruit for me, and if it doesn't, provides something that helps you out.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Two reasons why every character's family and friends should be slain by orcs (or whatever) pre-campaign:


1) DMs screw with your family/friends to lead the PC by the nose. "But I don't want to save my sister from ogres!"


2) When you permanently die (especially in 3.5), all of the effort you put into a 10 page diatribe about your family/friends goes to squat, and now you have to make a new character AND family/friends. Eric the Cleric #2 doesn't have that problem.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Sorry, I've played too many VtM chronicles with different DMs who screwed the players who took resources, retainers, herd, influence, contacts, or fame.

So players (me included) started maxing generation. Can't be taken away, can't be used against you. (At least not as easily. And if you do get diabed, hell...Fred the Brujah #2)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'll second the earlier post about Task Force Games' Central Casting books- simply invaluable when you or your players have writer's block.

One thing you could do is run a couple of one shots/mini-campaigns with pregen PCs to get people into characters.

Sometimes, its just a matter of setting. There are so many fantasy novels with characters who are alone in the world-Elric, Conan, etc., that its natural to have that kind of archetype in mind when generating a fantasy RPG PC.

A few years ago while I was living in Austin, I challenged my game group (Howdy Y'all, if you're out there) by running a superheroic game of HERO set in the 1890's. Jules Verne, HG Welles and others were my inspiration. The radical difference in setting shook up the players' preconcieved notions of PC design, and several of the players got REALLY inspired.

Shake up your game! You might just get a pleasant surprise.

 

[WaterRabbit]

Honestly, I find it a bit frustrating. I'm just not sure how people that have no connection to the rest of the world are going to be particularly heroic. In truth, it sounds like a recipe for a band of wandering sociopaths.

You do realize that most PC parties are a band of wandering sociopaths? Place PCs in context:

They are mercenaries (not high on the social scale).
They are tomb robbers (generally detested).
They commit genocide (not particular well adjusted).
They loot bodies for treasure (not much ties to the community).
They are vigilantes (taking the law into ones hands is not community minded).
They are bounty hunters (would not want one as a neighbor).
They trespass. They break and enter. They steal.
They carry more firepower and weapons than all of the town guards.

They generally live by the principle of might makes right. They rarely have to answer to anyone for their actions.

In the modern world they would be ostracized by any normal sane law abiding person.

If you play D&D where the characters are awarded XP for killing and gain gold and magic for looting you have sociopaths. It doesn't matter what their backgrounds are. If you want to have fully developed PCs you have to change how the characters are rewarded. Give XP for achieving goals. Have the PCs belong to an organization. Lay out exactly what the laws of society are and make them apply to the characters. Are PCs allowed to wander around with weapons and armor in civilized areas ? If so, they should be treated the same as someone walking into a 7-11 with a shotgun -- people will assume the worst.

If you don't want sociopaths, don't reward sociopathic behavior. However, you run the risk of having a player exodus from your game if that is the game they want.

One other point: Unlike many other RPGs, I have observed that D&D characters are usually developed through play and not before for all of the reasons mentioned by others in this thread.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

I'll second the earlier post about Task Force Games' Central Casting books- simply invaluable when you or your players have writer's block.

I'll third the recommendation, but for a different reason. I think the Central Casting books are worth checking out because they're totally hilarious. You get the most bizarre, whacked-out backgrounds if you just roll your way through the tables, and let the whole gaming group watch and contribute "explanations" to tie all the little factoids together.

It's a total blast when you're using it for characters in a lighthearted pickup game.


It's not perfect, of course; it's got bizarre and slightly offensive opinions buried in its pages and pages of tables (what gets categorized as a dark mental disorder, for example, can really piss some people off). But if you use it for comedic purposes, it's unrivaled.

--
i'm less convinced that it can be useful for generating a serious background

 

[RichCsigs]

I can't help but notice how Central Casting got mentioned here and then just shot up in price on E-Bay. (One going for $51.00, the other for $20.50).

As for me personally, I tend to make backgrounds with enough hooks for the DM to play with. I've never written other family still alive mainly because I never considered it until this thread... Might have to play with that for my next character.

 

[AngelTears]

Just a sociopath?

My players all have a backstory that could be generally summed up as "Orphaned only child with no friends or extended family of note." There are variations, like the noble who studied magic from her (deceased) father, was married off, widowed, and now leaves her duties to an advisor while she stays as far from home as possible. But it's just a variation on a theme.

Honestly, I find it a bit frustrating. I'm just not sure how people that have no connection to the rest of the world are going to be particularly heroic. In truth, it sounds like a recipe for a band of wandering sociopaths.

Am I alone in this frustration? Anyone feel like they've got some good techniques to promote socialization of PCs?

First as a side note: I am using sociopath to refer to anyone who does things without consideration of their actions and in addition do not have the emotional ties associated with what they are doing.

Well, I think this was best summed by Mage that had a flaw called normality I believe (don't have the book, and I read it years ago, so all I have is my flawed memory). The flaw was you get upset if you see someone killed, call the police if something happens - that sort of thing.

It is something that White Wolf hit upon a bit early on - and that is that most PCs are sociopaths.

Yes I openly admit that I do play sociopaths of a kind. Or emotionally highly damaged characters. But I am still firmly of the opinion that "no man (or woman, or creature for that matter) is an island". Because, I always think of when I write characters: is that first and foremost that character is part of a story no different from one told in a book or by the fire. That means that there has to be multiple reasons why this character will be interesting to play, not a character that is dislocated from space and time (which could be an interesting character to explore say in a super-power campaign).

Characters are part of a long term storyline that needs to be utilized during the campaign. And that gives a posibility for a role-player to experience something unique that is to explore a foreign psyche through a character.

The reasons against this are multitude. One of the primary reasons is that the lack of non-sociopathic rolemodels in movies. I mean between you, me, the forum, and chandeleer: we all want to play Predators, Terminators and Punishers, but better, faster, smarter, stronger, and without the emotional hang-ups.

In addition, most players are into superficial fun. They are into the mind candy of the situation - not into in-depth exploration of the how's and why's of a specific or multiple themes. One reasons why Day After Tomorrow will beat The Terminal in box office hits.