Some Details About Chaosium's Runequest 4th Edition

While Runequest 2 is currently being revived on Kickstarter, a brand new version (4th Edition) of the game is coming in 2016. Runequest (and other properties, such as HeroQuest) were acquired by Moon Design in 2013; and Chaosium now owns Moon Design. Runequest 4E is the fourth Chaosium edition of the game and was announced at Gen Con earlier this year. The 4E version will be developed from the 2E game, building up from what they refer to as "first principles", and incorporating lessons from other editions, plus games such as Call of Cthulhu.

Other elements include influences from RQ6 -- "combined Attack & Parry skills, opposed rolls, combat styles such as Sword and Shield, hit locations instead of general hit points, 100%+ scalability, actions, adding two characteristics to determine the starting values of skills." However, they are clear to disavow RQ3 -- "we avoid many elements of RQ3 that its own writers considered to be significant design flaws."

Glorantha is, of course, the setting. The project includes Sandy Peterson and Ken Rolston.

 

[Queer Venger]

I will not contribute to any Chaosium related KS's until I get all my physical products and books for CoC 7. Its been close to 3 years and waiting...

 

[Banesfinger]

...would you recommend to get a copy or RuneQuest (of any previous edition) and play it instead of D&D5e? Maybe it is an unfair comparison?

Everyone's tastes may vary. But from myself and my players (who have tried both RuneQuest and D&D), here are our opinions:

D&D class system makes it a little faster to create a 'stereotype' character (fighter, wizard, etc). It optimizes all your choices for you (armor proficiencies, hit-points, abilities, etc). RQ adds more flexibility (you are not constrained to a 'class' and can choose any skills you want). For example you could be a wizard who loves picking locks and swinging a two-handed sword. However, new players may be overwhelmed by all the choices.

RQ is a level-less game. It gets rid of that mechanic, so a person's experience is based purely on skill (e.g. that guy is fantastic with a long sword, or he is an awesome climber). This allows a more free-form and natural game. However, it can be difficult for a new Referee to gauge the balance of encounters without this 'level/rating' as a guide.

RQ is very intuitive and easy to understand (I have 35% in axes, and armor absorbs damage) where D&D has lots of abstract systems (AC, resistance, expertise, etc). However, in the end, it was this % skills system that turned my players away from the game:
Beginning characters often only have a 30%-40% rating on skills (depending on the version of RQ you use). This leads to lots of combats with 'swing & miss'. Players looked at their character sheet and said "this guy can only climb a tree 30% of the time? He sucks."
I won't go into a huge mathematical comparison of the two systems, but the numbers in D&D are abstract (a +2 or +3 at first level) which gives the players the 'impression' they are at least competent.

Again, your group's mileage may vary...

 

[Doctor Futurity]

I'm very torn on this. On the one hand, the idea of a new Runequest designed from RQ2 as a base intrigues me. On the other hand I really liked RQ6 and what Pete and Nash did to bring the system back to relevance. As it is, Design Mechanism will get to keep supporting RQ6 under a new name. After all the furor dies down I suppose we'll all be happy once we see the final product, but I do agree with chibi graz'zt that it's probably not a good idea to support the RQ2 reprint while CoC7 remains unfulfilled.

 

[Christopher Helton]

Don't forget that this means that the market for d100-based products is being further fragmented as well. In addition to the above mentioned Legend from Mongoose, there are also the derived works of OpenQuest and Cakebread & Walton's Renaissance games.

Plus now Pete and Loz are going to continue with their "Runequest 6" rules in another name. http://designmechanism.freeforums.org/important-announcement-future-of-rq6-t1393.html

It is great if you're a fan of d100 systems, but a bit of a pain if you're trying to sell to any of those people. This is very similar to the D&D/Pathfinder market fragmentation but 1) the BRP-based market is much smaller these days and 2) there are more publishers trying for a piece of that pie besides just two. In the long run, a product that could have brought fandoms together, is instead going to split them up.

Also, as someone who's introduction to Runequest was Runequest 3, I find saying that it had "significant design flaws" to be bothersome.

 

[JeffB]

At the same time, the Mongoose versions were pretty much a flop, and while RQ6 and games like openquest (what I have used in recent years) are well regarded, Runequest has never had the sucess it did way back in the late 70s and early 80s under the original Chaosium. RQ3 was a huge downhill slide for the propert after being at the top behind the TSR juggernaut in a much larger and stronger competitive market during THE rpg boom.

Having it, Glorantha, the availability of classic product, and CoC back under the original name, with fresh blood in former and new owners I think will only strengthen its appeal given time and smart business sense.

I realize there is/was a sizable segment of RQ3 fans, especially in Europe through It is not nearly as well received as RQ2. That said, that market and Mongoose probably kept Glorantha and/or the RQ name from sinking into oblivion over the decades despite mediocre at best products. Some people like myself, like 4eD&D, but we are few. RQ3 kinda shares the same issue with a big chunk of the RQ fanbase. Were it not for some great Glorantha products in the early 1990s revival, there would be no saving grace for it in the grand scheme of things.

I personally feel that TDM are being given a cookie by the new Chaosium for their stewardship,and will part ways at some point not long after the new version through Chaosium gets rolled out..

 

[Christopher Helton]

I have no dog in the race of which edition of Runequest is better. I have always had more interest in the Stormbringer line, anyway, because of my being a fan of Moorcock. It is a shame that we will probably never seen another RPG based upon his works.

My overall point is that none of this is really any good for the market of their games. I get that Runequest 2 was the heyday of the game, but it isn't 1978 any more and a lot of what made Runequest a much more interesting game than AD&D back then have been taken into newer games that have done a better job with the tools. With 3e, D&D even absorbed some of the Runequest innovations back into itself.

 

[JeffB]

Well, I disagree. I think it will be better for the game/property.

I realize its not 1978, but the game has floundered for a long time through many so called rules improvements. It needs some cleaning up if they are going to pit out a modern version, no doubt. But RQ3/6 are not the answer, IMO. And through I love Herowars/Heroquest, it is a niche game among niche games, and generally does not appeal to Runequesters.

Ymmv

 

[Christopher Helton]

My bringing up 1978 was because (from my semi-outside) viewpoint of all of this, it seems like the motivation behind the choice of RQ2 as the basis for the new numberless Runequest was "let's go back to when it was the most popular and go from that." That is a great choice is your only motivation is to sell to the existing fans, but if you want market growth, and a competitive product, you have to look to the market of the present, rather than the market of the past. All of this doesn't demonstrate to me that these things are being done.

 

[TreChriron]

I think this is going to work out wonderfully for everyone. Fans of all flavors are being catered to here.

First, those of us who love RQ6 soon to be {TDM House System} can continue to enjoy it playing things like Luther Arkwright, or in the wonderful Shores of Korantia/Age of Treason setting, and forthcoming Chronicles of Future Earth not to mention the myriad settings TDM has been working on that have been "on hold". TDMHS is a great game and I think this is great news for TDM fans.

Second, those of us who love Glorantha are going to have a tuned up BRP system in RQ2++ focused on Glorantha play. This will make running Glorantha easier. Not just for grognards, but for people new to Glorantha. RuneQuest is the game of Glorantha. Despite all the hand wringing about the cheese moving, I think when the dust settles well will all see this for the blessing it is. I'm calling this game RuneQuest as it was meant to be called. No need for numbers. Based on the news bits I've read, this is what the folks at Chaosium are calling it too.

Finally, it would be nice for a moment to stop and consider all the good will going on behind the scenes. People stepped up to save one of our founding companies of this hobby. Then more people came together to hash out the future of that company and the associated game. They came away with a WIN WIN solution that DID NOT involve petty lawsuits, wasted time or wasted resources. Our hobby's industry is filled with petty lawsuits, grudges and dropped balls. This is NOT one of those moments and is frankly refreshing.

Is it hard to juggle all these decisions while trying to finish the important work and obligations pressing down on the new Chaosium leadership? Sure it is. Are they all polished corporate mouth-pieces in $5000 suits and a team of PR sharks and lawyers? No they are not.

Look folks. These are gamers and grognards who are making games because they love this hobby. Cut your fellow human RPG enthusiasts a little slack. No one is bleeding, no one is being disrespected and as far as I can tell, no one was harmed.

Don't look at the last few months as some guys working out the future of a game, look at it like the huddle of a football game. They just broke the huddle, clapped in unison and now are lined up for the play.

Let's wait and see what happens after the snap. Personally, I'm expecting a great game.

 

[trystero]

Also, as someone who's introduction to Runequest was Runequest 3, I find saying that it had "significant design flaws" to be bothersome.

I also started with RQ3, and while it's my favourite version, I think it does have some flaws: its Fatigue Point system is niggly, its Divine Magic rules are so punitive that no player used divine magic in my games until we switched to the (very common) "Runepower" house rule, and the Sorcery system, while flavorful, ends up using a lot of math and requiring detailed tracking of elapsed time. If the new edition cleans up those subsystems, I'll certainly regard it as fixing flaws.

Personally, I'd love to see a game which combines the essential elegance of RQ3 with some of the innovations from RQ6 and possibly the "bonus die"/"penalty die" model from 7th-edition Call of Cthulhu. But I'm not pinning my hopes to anything specific; just have to wait and see what Chaosium comes up with.