Some Details About Chaosium's Runequest 4th Edition

While Runequest 2 is currently being revived on Kickstarter, a brand new version (4th Edition) of the game is coming in 2016. Runequest (and other properties, such as HeroQuest) were acquired by Moon Design in 2013; and Chaosium now owns Moon Design. Runequest 4E is the fourth Chaosium edition of the game and was announced at Gen Con earlier this year. The 4E version will be developed from the 2E game, building up from what they refer to as "first principles", and incorporating lessons from other editions, plus games such as Call of Cthulhu.

Other elements include influences from RQ6 -- "combined Attack & Parry skills, opposed rolls, combat styles such as Sword and Shield, hit locations instead of general hit points, 100%+ scalability, actions, adding two characteristics to determine the starting values of skills." However, they are clear to disavow RQ3 -- "we avoid many elements of RQ3 that its own writers considered to be significant design flaws."

Glorantha is, of course, the setting. The project includes Sandy Peterson and Ken Rolston.

 

[Christopher Helton]

No game is without flaws, I just found the outright dismissal of RQ3 to be bothersome.

All of this said, I've got RQ3, the Big Gold Book, Magic World, Stormbringer, MRQ, OpenQuest, Renaissance and other BRP-ish RPGs on my shelf already. It is going to take a lot from a game to surrplant those.

 

[Random Bystander]

I recently checked out the light version of BRP, and the rules seemed to make sense; the only possible absurdities I saw were in the low skill rolls and its potential handling of high-powered characters. The first can be fixed, if it is perceived as a problem, by giving more skill points to raise skills, and by increasing the starting skill cap if any; the second doesn't appear to be something it tries to cover, and so is tangential.

While I am not interested in Glorantha for various reasons, a modern BRP does have appeal.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Well, I disagree. I think it will be better for the game/property.

I realize its not 1978, but the game has floundered for a long time through many so called rules improvements. It needs some cleaning up if they are going to pit out a modern version, no doubt. But RQ3/6 are not the answer, IMO. And through I love Herowars/Heroquest, it is a niche game among niche games, and generally does not appeal to Runequesters.

Ymmv

The only issue that RQ6 had, on all accounts considering the unqualified praise for the system in reviews, lay in the limitations of distribution. The nominal agreement was that the new Chaosium would open up significant channels of distribution for TDM to flourish. Personal preferences aside, it wasn't the rules that limited the success RQ6, it was merely limited access and promotion resources.

 

[aramis erak]

This post was generated by a news article which your device or browser is not displaying directly. You can view the article directly here.

It also includes (at least for oversight purposes) Greg Stafford.

I really wish they had used 7th ed instead of 4th, but I can understand why.

Here's what I think is the reason: RQ6's design is really MRQ3e, and MRQ is NOT mechanically the 6th ed of the same game as RQ 1-2-3; Chaosium's RQ 4 likely will be.

And mind you, while it's a relatively solid game, MRQ is a worse game than RQ3 IMO. Simpler, but not in ways that make the game better, and with more cludgy combat rules.

 

[TrippyHippy]

It also includes (at least for oversight purposes) Greg Stafford.

I really wish they had used 7th ed instead of 4th, but I can understand why.

Here's what I think is the reason: RQ6's design is really MRQ3e, and MRQ is NOT mechanically the 6th ed of the same game as RQ 1-2-3; Chaosium's RQ 4 likely will be.

And mind you, while it's a relatively solid game, MRQ is a worse game than RQ3 IMO. Simpler, but not in ways that make the game better, and with more cludgy combat rules.

Well, that is obviously opinion rather than fact and I don't accept it for a number of reasons.

Firstly, a lot of the mechanical innovations going into this new Chaosium edition - as listed in the article above - are directly taken from RQ6 (and developed through MRQ1 and 2) not previous editions. It's actually been confirmed by Chaosium that Loz and Pete will actually be acknowledged in the Credits of the new game, and I will hold them to that. What you call cludgy rules are not my experience at all, and I have played RQ3 before too. While MRQ1 and MRQ2 were really developmental works, RQ6 was a game system praised by veterans and newcomers alike.

Secondly, it's also a matter of historical fact that Loz and Pete have done more to promote and maintain the brand that is RuneQuest these last few years than anybody else. Not Chaosium, not Moon Design (who were always at pains to argue how HeroQuest was a system better suited to Glorantha up to now) and not Greg Stafford (who was the guy that sold the IP license to both Avalon Hill and then Mongoose a couple of decades later). The Design Mechanism was a company solely set up to set up and maintain the RuneQuest game. At the very least they deserve credit for that, and moving on, I know which direction the quality lies.

 

[Jhaelen]

Back then, when my AD&D 2e campaign had fizzled, I was burnt out on all things D&D. Runequest came to the rescue and became my favorite RPG system for quite a while. I still consider it one of the best RPG systems. To me it represents an excellent compromise between playability and 'realism'. It also made me aware of the many shortcomings of D&D.

 

[aramis erak]

Secondly, it's also a matter of historical fact that Loz and Pete have done more to promote and maintain the brand that is RuneQuest these last few years than anybody else. Not Chaosium, not Moon Design (who were always at pains to argue how HeroQuest was a system better suited to Glorantha up to now) and not Greg Stafford (who was the guy that sold the IP license to both Avalon Hill and then Mongoose a couple of decades later). The Design Mechanism was a company solely set up to set up and maintain the RuneQuest game. At the very least they deserve credit for that, and moving on, I know which direction the quality lies.

No, it's an opinion. And a weak one at that.

I've never heard of either Loz or Pete before, and barely heard mention of RQ6 (except disparagements by HQ and RQ1-3 fans and hints of same by Greg Stafford in his KS vids). I've looked at the RQ6 mechanics in a friend's copy... and it's not innovative, it's not impressive, and not terribly different from MRQ II. Further, it's not well known

Mongoose's Matthew Sprague did more than this Pete or Loz - by unethical means, but still- He acquired the trademark, he sunk a huge lot of money into it, he secured a license from Greg - who, no matter your opinion, is the legal owner of the Glorantha setting under the relevant copyright laws (to wit, US and UK). His acquisition was legal, and he used the Trademark to coerce Greg (both Greg and Matthew have stated this more politely in public posts) into licensing Glorantha non-exclusively to Mongoose, in exchange for return of the Trademark to Greg.

Pete and Loz, or whomever, made use of Matthew's having made MRQ and MRQII open source, and a license from Greg that was not well publicized. They rode other people's work. They may or may not have made significant efforts. They may or may not have shared Greg's vision for Glorantha. But they MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT do as much to bring RQ to the public consciousness as Matthew did.

Matthew may have botched it, but he did so in a VERY public way.

 

[Christopher Helton]

All of the copyrights and trademarks regarding Runequest and Glorantha have been passed to Moon Design (which is the reason why all of this is happening).

 

[TrippyHippy]

No, it's an opinion. And a weak one at that.

I've never heard of either Loz or Pete before, and barely heard mention of RQ6 (except disparagements by HQ and RQ1-3 fans and hints of same by Greg Stafford in his KS vids). I've looked at the RQ6 mechanics in a friend's copy... and it's not innovative, it's not impressive, and not terribly different from MRQ II. Further, it's not well known

Your first comment, which essentially claims ignorance, somewhat disqualifies your second. I don't think you have read it, don't know about it's innovations or qualities at all and, following on, your 'version of events' is quite wrong. Here is a review by somebody who has actually read it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08qYDH9BYOQ

Mongoose's Matthew Sprague did more than this Pete or Loz - by unethical means, but still- He acquired the trademark, he sunk a huge lot of money into it, he secured a license from Greg - who, no matter your opinion, is the legal owner of the Glorantha setting under the relevant copyright laws (to wit, US and UK). His acquisition was legal, and he used the Trademark to coerce Greg (both Greg and Matthew have stated this more politely in public posts) into licensing Glorantha non-exclusively to Mongoose, in exchange for return of the Trademark to Greg.

I'm not sure what is unethical about legally securing a license from Issaries Inc (Greg Stafford) and you are making up in your head any form of 'coersion' (indeed, I'd be careful what you write, as if any of the parties are reading this they might consider it libellous). Glorantha products were produced by Mongoose in the '2nd Age' as part of the license to avoid conflict with the classic '3rd Age' that was developed by Moon Design (also licensed by Greg Stafford). And for the record, the RuneQuest rules were not a major credit for Greg Stafford - Steve Perrin and Ray Turney were the main game designers.

Pete and Loz, or whomever, made use of Matthew's having made MRQ and MRQII open source, and a license from Greg that was not well publicized. They rode other people's work. They may or may not have made significant efforts. They may or may not have shared Greg's vision for Glorantha. But they MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT do as much to bring RQ to the public consciousness as Matthew did.

Mongoose's RuneQuest was released as open license, but RuneQuest II was not. Mongoose RQ1 was written 'by committee' with Matt Sprange as the lead designer, and indeed it was Pete and Loz who actually persuaded Matt to pick up the license in the first place. MRQ2 was written by Lawrence Whittaker as the lead designer, who had written for Chaosium many times before. By Mathew Sprange's own admission, 'what Lawrence Whittaker didn't know about RuneQuest wasn't worth knowing' and this was why he handed the reigns over to him, when criticisms of MRQ1 had surfaced. Pete Nash won awards for his writing too, especially his historical books, and is also well immersed in BRP/RuneQuest publications. The reasons why MRQ2 didn't continue (outside of the Legend brand) were not made public, but unlike MRQ1 it was praised for it's content.

RuneQuest 6 was licenced from Issaries again to TDM as a new company directly set up by Lawrence Whittaker and Pete Nash to create a new and authoritive RuneQuest game. It earned strong reviews and critical feedback from all quarters. It had a written endourcement from Steve Perrin (one of the original game's designers) in the Preface. They did all this off their own backs, without any assistance from Chaosium, Mongoose and only cursory involvement from Moon Design. They had worked closely in collusion with Moon Design towards a (now vapourware) supplement called Adventures in Glorantha for the last two years. This product was announced in August to have been expanded out to a whole new edition of RuneQuest for Chaosium (ie Moon Design had originally commissioned TDM to write it when all the licenses had fallen to them). This latest announcement has changed course.

What you are writing is incorrect. Moreover, you are also quite directly engaging in the sort of edition warring that, even with the various confusing editions of recent years, the BRP community had largely been free from - it's not like Traveller!

You are evidently wrong insofar that the creative director for Glorantha, Jeff Richard, at Moon Design/Chaosium has already stated that Pete Nash and Lawrence Whittaker will be credited in the new edition. The quote in the article was from the context of trying to assuage fans that the new edition would not ditch their innovations to the game in the new edition.They are among the foremost experts on the Gloranthan setting and the RuneQuest system in the world. If you don't know who they are, then you simply don't know much about RuneQuest.

 

[Lanefan]

[lots of history about] RuneQuest.

Your information is deep enough to make me ask: are or were you ever involved in any of these various companies, or are you just a really keen RQ fan?

All of the copyrights and trademarks regarding Runequest and Glorantha have been passed to Moon Design (which is the reason why all of this is happening).

So this means it's all now in a big tent with Moon Design squarely at the helm, and from here MD can do what they like and involve whoever they want to, correct? If yes, wouldn't this in theory be a big win for all involved?

Lanefan