Some high level play recommendations? (for players) *long*

[Mystery Man]

My players are all level 13 we have:

1. paladin/fist of raziel
2. ranger
3. rogue/sorc/arcane trickster
4. fighter/sorc/spellsword

They spent 5 hours running around in circles trying to locate people and made no progress until finally I had to *strongly* hint that perhaps a scry or divination might help. All of my verbal clues in game stated that in no way, by the use of tracking, locate creature (which was a pretty good idea, I thought they were going to take it further at that time) or talking to locals were they going to figure out where the villian they were chasing went to.

Example:

Players follow leads to a town, said town has one of the villian's cohorts they know of but do not know what he is capable of. Players actually do find this person briefly in an inn sitting in a booth and doing what appears to be watching the door. While the players file in, said villians cohort gets up and starts going up the stairs to his room. Players follow him up the stairs and knock on the door (trying the peaceful approach since this was a public place) and after no answer attempt to beat it down. Its barred from the other side. Trickster goes outside and flies up to window level, the room is empty, at this same time the rest of the party finally beats the door in discovering the same thing. Investigating the room they find that there is no trace of this person anywhere. Trying to use locate creature produces no results (or actually it does, since he's not in range they conclude that he must have teleported away), discouraged they meander around town the rest of the night(real time) going from tavern to inn questioning people who have absolutely no clue as to what they are about. After awhile of "Nope, no sir don't have any idea" or "Never seen him before" I would think that they would have tried another avenue. They did not *sigh*. Until finally I said that perhaps some other means of discovery other than the mundane might yeild some answers, and this was from a high ranking NPC! I tried to keep it in game! Still nothing. Finally the paladin (the person, not the charater) gets fed up and buys some scrying device and some scrolls and gives them to the sorcerers to use.
This is the kicker the first scrying attempt (on the villians cohort) succeeds and through my description the scryer sketches the harbor (cohort obviously teleported away) for later reference. I thought this was an awesome idea! They alternate between being boneheads and geniuses apparently. The second attempt failed but they were able to glean enough info to put them back on the right track. Finally.

So, my question is how do I get these guys to start thinking big? This example is not the last time this is going to happen. The villians are not 1st level orc warriors anymore and are not going to sit in one place and wait for the PC's to come kill them. I get bored silly spoon feeding them the adventure as well, I need these guys to start thinking for themselves!

 

[Voadam]

Some people just have different styles of gaming. Some enjoy logistical challenges and figuring out puzzles, others just enjoy kicking a door down and blasting the foe.

I'm a big fan of allowing players to go their own way and make their own decisions. Generally D&D is flexible enough that there are multiple ways to do anything. So gather info and locate creature are valid approaches, not just scrying. Not finding the bad guys is okay as well, nonfatal failure can be interesting in a campaign along with a great string of successes.

 

[Mystery Man]

Some people just have different styles of gaming. Some enjoy logistical challenges and figuring out puzzles, others just enjoy kicking a door down and blasting the foe.

After 2 years of this I'm ready to move on to something more challenging. Kick the door down will always be a part of that but there needs to be a balance of something more. And I need some help to get them there I think.

I'm a big fan of allowing players to go their own way and make their own decisions.

Me too. I just wish they would!

 

[Sir Elton]

Wow! I don't know how much advice I can give you, Mystery Man.

Maybe you should have them review their character backgrounds, and you review their character backgrounds, and then build a lovely adventure hook around it.

Maybe you can bring Halaster in the picture somehow. Have Halaster send them a missive needing their help with something. That way, you can get them going down into Undermountain.

Another idea is to create a RCE tailored to the characters. Or maybe the best thing to do is to stop the campaign and begin anew. Your favored world has lots of hooks to work off of, and that's just in the FRCS. Begin a campaign somewhere new -- like Shade; the Unapproachable East, or maybe even revisit Shadowdale and Elminster.

This time, demand a more detailed character profile from your players and work off of it.

Other than the suggestions above, I really don't know how you can save your campaign. And you are the only one that knows your players best.

 

[Mystery Man]

The campaign doesn't need saving per se, and their character histories are for the most part not too shabby. It's the fact that they are not living up to the potential of what their characters are capable of. They are forces to be reckoned with and they are acting like noobs! I need to change that mindset!

 

[dravot]

There's nothing wrong with telling them out of game that they need to think outside the box. That there are many solutions at their fingertips, particularly with spells, if they bothered to look.

If you want to stay 'in game' with it, have someone chastise them for not using their head..."what do you mean you haven't bothered to try X? What kind of idiot wouldn't think of even trying X?"

 

[Delemental]

Perhaps by demonstrating the effectiveness of utilizing high-level resources using NPCs, you can get the hint across. You've started doing that with the teleporting cohort, but it could go further.

Maybe have the party ambushed by a mercenary group that makes use of things like teleportation, multiple buffs, and various divinations. If they mercenaries win, then you have the (captured) PCs overhear them bragging about how they'd used scrying and similar magics to spy on the party and learn their weaknesses. If the party wins, then the NPC mage is carrying notes he's made about the scrying they've done and the plans they made from it. You have to be consistent, though; the NPC's could only exploit weaknesses they could reasonably gather from scrying (they can't all be protected from cold damage if they've never seen the sorcerer cast a cone of cold spell, for example).

 

[wedgeski]

I totally understand your pain. This sounds like a group of players simply unaccustomed to the resources at their disposal as their level goes up - totally understandable if they haven't participated in a high-level campaign before. The only solution I would recommend has already been suggested by Delemental - use NPC's to illustrate to your players what exactly can be done with a bit of magic.

I strongly counsel *against* chastising your players or their characters, in game or out. If these guys simply don't *know* how a high-level game of D&D usually works, then they're not going to appreciate being patronised by their DM, or by other NPC's.

 

[Sir Elton]

The campaign doesn't need saving per se, and their character histories are for the most part not too shabby. It's the fact that they are not living up to the potential of what their characters are capable of. They are forces to be reckoned with and they are acting like noobs! I need to change that mindset!

Well, that changes the whole dynamic, doesn't it?

Well, you know what my Cousin would do in a situation like this? He'd go tell his friends and humiliate your players to no end.

Seriously, high level play often involves lots of plots. It's potentially the funnest part of playing Dungeons and Dragons since you can start breaking out all the tricks that your Author side has (a friend of mine has a problem with high level play, I don't). And you're right, it's a problem with the players, they aren't taking your cues at all. So, really, your players need to grow, I think.

1. But if you want to finish this campaign, you might have to hit the PCs over the head with something. Build an encounter only their other abilities will solve. Maybe Cyric got on the act and decided to play a game of wits with them. Or Bane.

2. Have them meet with Mystra or another divine patron and have that patron chastise them. "Look, you aren't just getting it! You are wasting your potential and I won't have a slothful servant!"

3. Maybe you should talk to them out-of-game and give them the one-on-one that you aren't enjoying gamemastering their PCs and have them think of ways to make it more enjoyable for you. Remember, a game that isn't fun is just a chore.

4. Perhaps you can reward there other abilities and not for defeating the "monster of the week."

5. Talk to them out straight that they have a chance to ascend to the Faerunian Pantheon (RCE) IF they play their characters up to their greatest potential.

 

[Dr. NRG]

Incentivize them. It doesn't sound to me like they're motivated to use every means at their disposal to solve this problem. It's apparently not a crisis that is pressing to them. Have said enemy spend the time they wasted kidnapping their families. Have him desecrate their temples, interfering with their spell acquisition. Have him do what a moustache-twisting evil mastermind just might do, and do it to them. Have him taunt them with a nasty personal note telling them that it's all their fault, and that they could have stopped this from happening. Have him demand a ransom from them. Have him spend the time booby-trapping their homes, stealing their kids, and running off with their treasure trove.

You get the idea. It sounds like they aren't going after this with the kind of intensity you're looking for. At the far end of the spectrum, if your life hangs in the balance, you use every means at your disposal to find a solution. Move up the intensity scale until they are exploring every option. A villain who knows he's being hunted is, after all, going to do everything he can to strike back. Show them that giving him the time to plan out a response is going to cost them.

NRG