D&D 5E Some thoughts on skills.

[iserith]

Yeah, all this talk of skill splitting/lumping doesn't really matter if we're not going to establish what skills actually do. You can always make athletics 3 skills and give out additional proficiencies or points, or 1 and give out less.

It is a problem if we're evaluating something like 3.5 Use Magic Device and Swim as equally investments in a scarce economy, but there's a lot of ways to solve that problem.

They don't really "do" anything though in this game. Ability checks just exist as a mechanic to sometimes resolve things the players describe their characters as attempting with skill proficiencies offering a bonus if and when they apply to the task. So you could split Athletics into, say, Climb, Jump, and Swim, if you wanted to. It just means individually they will tend to apply less often to a Strength check than an Athletics skill proficiency which covers all three.

 

[Clint_L]

I do a lot of checks in my games that aren't based on skill but on who the character is. So if they are trying to find a good campsite in the wilderness, I'll just have a straight roll and set the difficulty according to what makes sense for the character. You're playing a cleric whose never been out of the city before? Yeah, that's going to be a DC20. You're a barbarian who grew up in similar wilderness? It's a 10.

There are lots of ways to keep the story on track as long as your group is flexible with RAW. I think it really depends on what each table prefers. So while I can see that there are some issues with the current skill system, it doesn't really impact our game much.

 

[Pedantic]

They don't really "do" anything though in this game. Ability checks just exist as a mechanic to sometimes resolve things the players describe their characters as attempting with skill proficiencies offering a bonus if and when they apply to the task. So you could split Athletics into, say, Climb, Jump, and Swim, if you wanted to. It just means individually they will tend to apply less often to a Strength check than an Athletics skill proficiency which covers all three.

Yeah, that's why I think it's a silly place to get bogged down in skill discussions. Far more important is determining (from my stance) what actions skill checks allow players to declare, or if you're a narrative sort, when to call for checks to determine what kind of spin to put on a scene.

 

[iserith]

Yeah, that's why I think it's a silly place to get bogged down in skill discussions. Far more important is determining (from my stance) what actions skill checks allow players to declare, or if you're a narrative sort, when to call for checks to determine what kind of spin to put on a scene.

I think there's some danger in gating action declarations behind having a skill proficiency. When to call for checks, yes, that's definitely important in my view.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think there's some danger in gating action declarations behind having a skill proficiency. When to call for checks, yes, that's definitely important in my view.

Yeah, that's the reason ability checks still deserve to exist.

 

[Pedantic]

I think there's some danger in gating action declarations behind having a skill proficiency. When to call for checks, yes, that's definitely important in my view.

I was specifically talking about stuff like "I pick the lock" requiring a DC 15 check to occur. I've never seen much point to "trained vs. untrained" type action limits, they're better covered by simply setting your DCs properly. If a slick, smooth wall is a DC 25 to climb, then it by definition requires training to handle, because you need a +5 bonus for any chance of success.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Eject skills out of the airlock.

Is this something the characters race/class/background covers? IE The Ranger/Elf/Thief can make perception checks. the dwarf/miner/goliath can make stone based checks. Bandage a wound? Cleric/Herbalist/Druid/Nurse. Easy.

If so they can roll against their appropriate stat. Easy peasy.

 

[ph0rk]

I was specifically talking about stuff like "I pick the lock" requiring a DC 15 check to occur. I've never seen much point to "trained vs. untrained" type action limits, they're better covered by simply setting your DCs properly. If a slick, smooth wall is a DC 25 to climb, then it by definition requires training to handle, because you need a +5 bonus for any chance of success.

Of course, since they mostly wrote out taking a 20, you have the embarassing absurdity of someone with a +5 check rolling ad nauseam to climb the wall.

 

[Clint_L]

I was specifically talking about stuff like "I pick the lock" requiring a DC 15 check to occur. I've never seen much point to "trained vs. untrained" type action limits, they're better covered by simply setting your DCs properly. If a slick, smooth wall is a DC 25 to climb, then it by definition requires training to handle, because you need a +5 bonus for any chance of success.

A challenge I see with this is the way the skill checks are currently designed often advantages/disadvantages characters in strange ways that are actively distracting and odd in the story. For example, perception is probably the most frequently used skill check; does it really make sense that a cloistered cleric is often the party's perception expert, even when searching for, say, animal activity in the barbarian's backyard?

 

[Pedantic]

A challenge I see with this is the way the skill checks are currently designed often advantages/disadvantages characters in strange ways that are actively distracting and odd in the story. For example, perception is probably the most frequently used skill check; does it really make sense that a cloistered cleric is often the party's perception expert, even when searching for, say, animal activity in the barbarian's backyard?

That's more of an ability score issue than anything, though I would say perception is generally a badly designed skill, and should probably be reworked as a defense (and possibly as an ability score unto itself).

That being said, some stylistic weirdness is inevitable, and I'm much more concerned with making sure the choices players get to make around skill usage are engaging than hammering out every world building kink they create. A lot of background material, like presumably a regional specialization, familiarity with certain animals in your situation, is probably best handled with small circumstances bonuses/penalties, like 3.5s "DM's Best Friend" +2/-2 modifier.