D&D 5E Some thoughts on skills.

[Pedantic]

I think this works best if the players are given some out-of-character info by the GM, so they can make non-blind choices in PC building.

To some extent, I agree, but I think that's mostly handled by the basic premise of the game and its mechanics to begin with. I don't think this requires anything beyond the usual session zero and game pitches in the first place. If I pitch a game based on the fall of a pseudo-Roman decadent empire rife with internal corruption and external threats, I'm going to have players wanting to play information brokers and recently returned warriors from the front, and junior members of scheming patrician houses and so on.

Integration with the setting and the whole heroic class structure should be sufficient. And if it really isn't working, there's always retraining, which mostly consists of saying "hey, can I swap Swim for Climb?" and me saying "sure!"

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I don't recommend putting words in other people's mouths. Criticize all you want. Just expect some people will find your position baseless and worthy of criticism itself.

Alright. What, then, am I supposed to make of:

If you don't like the DM's rulings, talk to them. If they don't work with you on it, adapt or find another game.

"Adapt or find another game"?

 

[iserith]

Alright. What, then, am I supposed to make of:

"Adapt or find another game"?

There's not a lot to make of it. That is the practical reality of playing at a table with other human beings. Tell them what you want and, if they don't give it to you, either accept it or move on.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

There's not a lot to make of it. That is the practical reality of playing at a table with other human beings. Tell them what you want and, if they don't give it to you, either accept it or move on.

And for discussion on a forum like this...which isn't a table? Because this practical advice may be helpful if you're actually at a table, but we aren't at a table. We're discussing "some thoughts on skills." Which was my whole point.

 

[iserith]

And for discussion on a forum like this...which isn't a table? Because this practical advice may be helpful if you're actually at a table, but we aren't at a table. We're discussing "some thoughts on skills." Which was my whole point.

I was responding to a poster who, to my recollection, was saying they wanted a more comprehensive list of tasks and DCs so they can use it when a DM might otherwise be rather arbitrary and inconsistent in their rulings. But the DM has never had to follow any of those lists, even when they existed in previous editions, so in the end it all comes down to just working it out with the DM or walking away. WotC's musings on DCs for climbing a brick wall versus a stucco one isn't going to be much help in my view.

 

[tetrasodium]

I was responding to a poster who, to my recollection, was saying they wanted a more comprehensive list of tasks and DCs so they can use it when a DM might otherwise be rather arbitrary and inconsistent in their rulings. But the DM has never had to follow any of those lists, even when they existed in previous editions, so in the end it all comes down to just working it out with the DM or walking away. WotC's musings on DCs for climbing a brick wall versus a stucco one isn't going to be much help in my view.

No I fully agree with @EzekielRaiden. I didn't respond to your full throated endorsement of Calvin Ball and the meme I referenced as the solution for any sort of disagreement because he had already done so... Please don't use me as an excuse to avoid the problem your answer creates for discussion, I'd very much like to see an answer to the question he raised.

 

[MichaelSomething]

We could argue about how specific we want the skill system to be all week honestly. Let me change it up by asking...
what skill is it to identify wood by smell???

 

[EzekielRaiden]

We could argue about how specific we want the skill system to be all week honestly. Let me change it up by asking...
what skill is it to identify wood by smell???

Perception and/or Nature. Probably the latter. (Edit: Having watched the clip, definitely Nature. He couldn't tell that it was a sock, which I would absolutely say is a Perception thing, but he identified that the smell contained fungal notes. That's Nature.)

 

[Minigiant]

Not at all. Athletics and Acrobatics are quite clearly different things. But lifting is a form of athletic action. You use the same muscle groups for lifting (and all the things you described) as you would for something like swimming, climbing, digging, or all sorts of other things. Just about the only thing this "lifting" skill wouldn't cover would be stuff involving running or walking!

Bypoint on this is that there are already Strength checks that are not part of Athletics.

RAW Athletics is ONLY Climb/Jump/Swim/Wrestle

Bend, Break and Lift X are not Athletics checks RAW in 5e and One D&D.

So there are 3 choices

1. Add Bend, Break and Lift to Athletics
2. Make Bend, Break and Lift is own skill
3. Do nothing

My preference is to do 2 in order to have 2 Strength based skills. My opinion is that 5e

1. Has too few skills on its list
2. Gives out too few skills and tools prof
3. A general Knowledge skill should be created
4. A Con skill or 2 should be created
5. Lore skills should be downgraded to the level of Tool Prof
6. The "Know Stuff" check should be a Intelligence (Knowledge or Lore) with advantage if you have both.

 

[Minigiant]

I was responding to a poster who, to my recollection, was saying they wanted a more comprehensive list of tasks and DCs so they can use it when a DM might otherwise be rather arbitrary and inconsistent in their rulings. But the DM has never had to follow any of those lists, even when they existed in previous editions, so in the end it all comes down to just working it out with the DM or walking away. WotC's musings on DCs for climbing a brick wall versus a stucco one isn't going to be much help in my view.

I think my and other's point is that this an major Anti-"DM Help" strain in the community. A huge "You figure it out" feeling in the community that helped push out a DMG missing a lot of guidance. "The DM Figures it out or You Leave the table" is common.

I wonder why Anti-DM-Help is so vocal in online discussions but DM help makes money on TikTok and YT.