Something that 4e's designers overlooked? -aka is KM correct?

[Scribble]

You can see Gary describing something like that in the AD&D DMG in his discussion of keeping track of Time. However, his discussion regards having several active groups in the game - something most D&D games don't have. The idea of time as a limited resource? It isn't there.

For time to truly be important, either it must be limited, or there must be other groups that have actions that take time and who can adversely affect the players if they complete their actions first. (Which is another way of saying the available time of the players is limited.) In AD&D, this has seen use in "The Assassin's Knot" by Len Lakofka, which has a timeline for the adversaries, against which the PCs must race. The James Bond RPG also uses villain timelines in its adventures.

AD&D 1e is interesting in that there are several activities that take up a lot of time, in particular training, wilderness travel and recovering from being revived from negative hit points. However, the game really doesn't have any structure in it that makes this lost time meaningful. Yes, there are aging effects, but most campaigns don't last that long. To get from 1st to 15th level may only really consume a couple of years of game time. Meanwhile, if you add in a villain's timeline, it actually adversely interacts with those aspects, especially training.

Honestly, to use Time as a Resource in D&D requires a much more strict structure than currently exists in the game. I'm not really familiar with Birthright, but I dare say that would have such a structure, likewise with the Dominion rules in the Companion ruleset of BECM D&D. However, both these rulesets are at odds with the regular activities of D&D play; it's not just a case of adapting one.

Cheers!

I'm still a little confused, as I'm not sure exactly how it's NOT a resource in D&D. Anytime the PCs have to do something before something else happens this would be in effect wouldn't it?

IE the Cult of Orcus plans to cast the spell of world ending on the new moon! The New moon is in three days! It takes us at least 2.5 days to get to their temple of unholy unholiness, so we have less then 1 day to gather our resources... But wait, we met that guy about a day back that was selling griffons... they would get us there in less then a day... that buys us a little time to get the jump on them...

What am I missing?

 

[SkidAce]

I'm still a little confused, as I'm not sure exactly how it's NOT a resource in D&D. Anytime the PCs have to do something before something else happens this would be in effect wouldn't it?

IE the Cult of Orcus plans to cast the spell of world ending on the new moon! The New moon is in three days! It takes us at least 2.5 days to get to their temple of unholy unholiness, so we have less then 1 day to gather our resources... But wait, we met that guy about a day back that was selling griffons... they would get us there in less then a day... that buys us a little time to get the jump on them...

What am I missing?

You sound spot on to me.

 

[Garthanos]

Time must be still a resource or ritual casting would be in the middle of battle.

 

[Raven Crowking]

You sound spot on to me.

And to me.


RC

 

[MerricB]

I'm still a little confused, as I'm not sure exactly how it's NOT a resource in D&D. Anytime the PCs have to do something before something else happens this would be in effect wouldn't it?

IE the Cult of Orcus plans to cast the spell of world ending on the new moon! The New moon is in three days! It takes us at least 2.5 days to get to their temple of unholy unholiness, so we have less then 1 day to gather our resources... But wait, we met that guy about a day back that was selling griffons... they would get us there in less then a day... that buys us a little time to get the jump on them...

What am I missing?

Nothing... except for how rarely this occurs.

Not only does it occur rarely, but there are two other aspects to consider. First is how often the time aspect is subverted. You know how it works: you get to the Master's Altar at the very point the sacrifice is to take place because it fulfills the need for Dramatic Tension.

The second aspect is this: How often do the characters have meaningful choices about what direction to take next, whilst being aware of the time consequences of that action?

Although a time-sensitive campaign is fully possible, it does require the DM to do extra work; not only in running the campaign, but in calculating in advance how long actions should take. After all, there's no point in designing a "sacrifice the maiden after a week" adventure if it takes 10 days for the characters to even arrive at the volcano with the proper maiden... I'm sorry, have I got the roles of PCs and villains reversed again?

If you do run such a campaign (or adventures) where time-management is an important issue, please let us know!

Cheers!

 

[Raven Crowking]

Nothing... except for how rarely this occurs.

In your experience, perhaps.

Although a time-sensitive campaign is fully possible, it does require the DM to do extra work; not only in running the campaign, but in calculating in advance how long actions should take.

Not in my experience.

If you do run such a campaign (or adventures) where time-management is an important issue, please let us know!

WIthin the given campaign milieu, there are X NPCs with plots the PCs might wish to foil, and Y places the PCs may wish to explore (sometimes to gain items to foil said NPC) and only enough time to do a fraction thereof. Whatever the PCs don't deal with evolves.

Actually, it's pretty easy to set up time constraints in a campaign milieu.


RC

 

[MerricB]

In your experience, perhaps.

You are quite correct. There's only one thing for it... Poll time!

(Plus, it might get more people interested in this topic).

Cheers!

 

[I'm A Banana]

IE the Cult of Orcus plans to cast the spell of world ending on the new moon! The New moon is in three days! It takes us at least 2.5 days to get to their temple of unholy unholiness, so we have less then 1 day to gather our resources... But wait, we met that guy about a day back that was selling griffons... they would get us there in less then a day... that buys us a little time to get the jump on them...

What am I missing?

Not much.

I think it's possible to be a little more "pro-active, interesting rules elements" with time. My experience, like Merric's is that time is rarely used as an actual resource, and more as a description.

It's not something that players can choose to use on Task A or Task B, each of which has a different chance of accomplishing Goal 1 (or whatever).

I think this works because it helps create a new, adventure/dungeon-specific resource that can be used on certain things.

And I think, though it may exist informally, adding a formal element to it encourages use and variety, which is what I'd love to see.

 

[Mark]

Nothing... except for how rarely this occurs.

You must be posting about store bought modules/adventures because it not only happens regularly in campaign games I run, it isn't fudged so the PCs can nick-of-time it yet they usually manage to beat the clock because they know how important it is and that it won't be fudged. Time is always a resource that is used in games I run.

 

[MerricB]

You must be posting about store bought modules/adventures because it not only happens regularly in campaign games I run, it isn't fudged so the PCs can nick-of-time it yet they usually manage to beat the clock because they know how important it is and that it won't be fudged. Time is always a resource that is used in games I run.

Both published adventures and my perception of how other DMs run things. If you look a couple of posts above, I have said I could be wrong about this.

The poll results have been interesting so far...

Currently, I rate "dramatic deadlines" at 17, and "time deadlines" at 41.

Cheers!