Sonic Damage Equalization

[Xarlen]

Kobolds mooks? Not in my campaings! A pair of Kobold sorcerers got a near TPK (6 of 7 PCs down) in my last campaign.

Brother! I have not unleashed Kobolds on my party yet (First campaign and all), but if I ever do, they shall be Nasty. Kobolds are my little chosen race.

 

[Tewligan]

Advice from Dr. Robotnik...

This sonic damage brouhaha can be neatly avoided by ditching sonic damage entirely. Don't allow it for energy substitution, and drop all sonic damage dealers from the campaign, both spells and creatures. There are too few of them to be noticeable if they disappear. That's what I'm doing, anyway. So long, shout! Get outta Dodge, destrachan!

 

[FireLance]

Sonics do have one weakness that none of the other energy types do: a bard can use his Countersong ability to give everyone within 30 feet a saving throw equal to his Perform check.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

By this reasoning, you would be quite happy with a "force substition" feat that allowed you to turn any damaging attack into a force effect then?!?

Force is a separate matter, since there is precisely one creature I am aware of that is immune to it, and it is an Epic Level creature. But, no, I wouldn't be too bothered by Force Substitution, either. I can always add Force Resistance to creatures if it gets to be too annoying.

Can't you see the abuse inherent in a feat which allows you to throw 10d6 acid damage when under the straight rules the best you can hope for is 2d6 acid damage a round from the high level acid cloud spell? It doesn't even INCREASE THE SPELL LEVEL??

Actually, no, I don't see any real abuse. There are several acid resistant creatures, very few creatures that specifically take extra damage from acid, and the substitution doesn't give continuing damage like the "normal" acid spells have. I see no reason to increase the spell level.

I'm not surprised that players are pleased to use some of these wacko offerings from Tome & Blood...

Tome & Blood is incredibly tame compared to Magic of Faerun. I haven't really seen much of anything in T&B that I'd consider seriously unbalancing.

 

[Hashmalum]

Sound does enter a silence spell because the sound itself does not cause the effect.

That's not much of a silence spell, then, is it?

This is also why sound actually moves so well in water, and is the reason why all underwater communication (ie. sonar, whales, dolphins, etc.) is by "sound." The actual sound a dolphin makes ends shortly after leaving the dolphin, the waves it creates echo on and are converted into information (ie. a fish) when they bounce back. The dolphin does not hear its own voice, aside from what we hear in our own heads when we talk (that is, the reverberations).

I was always given to understand that sound is considered to be a vibration in the air, and that vibrations in other mediums are not "sound". Presumably this is why silence doesn't stop things like Tremorsense. So, if you mean to say that silence doesn't work underwater, I'd be inclined to agree with you.

 

[Ciaran]

Munchkin or not, Mostin's (from Heretic of Wyre) usage of sonic-damage spells is a part of his character, and it seems to fit him. Being able to replace the energy damage of your spells with your signature type is a cool ability.

Actually, no. Go back and read Lady Despina's Virtue II. Unlike Mulissu, Mostin wasn't particularly fascinated with any particular element. He only pulled out the sonics during gameplay because the enemies he planned to fight were vulnerable to it... and he kept on using it because everybody turned out to be vulnerable to it, so why stop? If sonics were balanced, he wouldn't have bothered.

Originally posted by Sepulchrave II
Mulissu laughed. "Maybe, in a straight fight. But I’m assuming you’d cheat. What’s the biggest evocation you can deliver?"
"Against a Cambion? Sonically Substituted Maximized Empowered Lightning Bolt."
"Not bad," Mulissu said. "Sonics, eh?"
"It pays when you’re dealing with outsiders," Mostin said.

 

[Oni]

Silence stops sound. Contrary to popular belief, Sonic Damage is not sound.

A Sonic Substituted Fireball will blow thru a Silence spell just as easily as a regular Fireball does. The same way a Screaming weapon works.

Nothing in the books indicates that Sonic damage makes any more noise than shocking does.

I'll repost my responce to this very issue from the rules forum thread.

Forget science and common sense for a minute. Why is this even a question? The last sentence of Silence is pretty clear.

"This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks, such as command , harpy song, a horn of blasting , et c. "

Now this sonic fireball, what type of damage is it doing? Sonic? Well then Silence defends agains it, the very spells says so. The only exception I know to this is screaming weapons, but that is an exception specifically listed in the description of said weapon type and does not apply to anything else, as it is the exception rather than the rule. If you could show me evidence that states other wise anywhere in regards to energy substitution or sonic damage in general I would like to see it.

 

[SylverFlame]

For Hashmalum

Sorry for the vague-ness of the statement. What I should have said was:

In the case of a spell where hearing the command (i.e. almost any charm-type spell) a silence spell would defend because you can't hear the command (unless the user of the charm were telepathic, then you're in trouble). As well, any spell where the sound-waves (which have no noise) are the carrier of the effect, then they would affect the area within silence.

As an example for the sound-wave attack, we'll take the sonic substituted Fireball. Now then, there are two possible ideas here.

1) The DM rules that the causer of damage comes from the sound. Effectively, the pure loudness (is that even a word? ) causes the pain and damage. If this is the case, then silence would protect.

2) The damage is actually caused by the sound-waves. Essentially, the sonic boom buffets the affected people and causes damage. As well, rocks and such thrown by the pure force of the sound-waves hurt the people, explaining the damage.


This is just my interpretation of the situation. As well, for the sonic sub'ed fireball, I would likely choose option number two. It follows with house rules I used in 2e for fireballs and makes my DM-ing life easier.

 

[Staffan]

I can't believe no-one has bothered to check what the description of the Silence spell has to say on the matter:
"This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks, such as command, harpy song, a horn of blasting, etc."

Edit: Or someone could post the exact same thing while I was reading the rest of the thread. That would work too

 

[Oni]

Edit: Or someone could post the exact same thing while I was reading the rest of the thread. That would work too

Or they could have done it a day or two ago