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Sooo, that's my players certain not to be subscribing to DDI...
- Thread starter Ruin Explorer
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LightPhoenix
First Post
I think this thread aptly demonstrates my biggest problem with DDI - flat pricing. It's readily apparent that different people assign different value to different components. People don't want to pay extra for stuff that don't give value to, and thus are turned away from a flat rate pricing. I would even be much more amicable to paying a little more per month for a single component rather than buying the whole deal. At least then I'm paying for stuff at 100% personal value, rather than paying for stuff which may only have 25% personal value.
Of course, a by-parts pricing scheme has some disadvantages from a coding and server side. It's more difficult to set-up, more difficult to maintain, and makes integration of parts more challenging.
I feel though that a by-parts scheme is ultimately more rewarding, as you're basically creating a variable purchase point. Thus, more people will at least be buying some of your product, even if less of them are paying a full $10-15 dollars a month.
I suppose there is a secondary problem of customer confidence. I can only speak for myself here, but I'm not too thrilled with WotC's track record as far as their online capabilities go. However, I think that line of thinking results in a wait-and-see attitude, more than an outright dismissal. I can't honestly say as a player I will subscribe, as I'll have a local group and little aversion to making a character by hand. Though I do want to play a Bard, I think I can wait.
There's a secondary thing which I didn't see brought up, but maybe I missed. It was mentioned that there was no family/group rate. Why wouldn't my entire group chip in to gain access under one account, even on a monthly basis? We all chip in for food and share books, this really is no different.
Of course, a by-parts pricing scheme has some disadvantages from a coding and server side. It's more difficult to set-up, more difficult to maintain, and makes integration of parts more challenging.
I feel though that a by-parts scheme is ultimately more rewarding, as you're basically creating a variable purchase point. Thus, more people will at least be buying some of your product, even if less of them are paying a full $10-15 dollars a month.
I suppose there is a secondary problem of customer confidence. I can only speak for myself here, but I'm not too thrilled with WotC's track record as far as their online capabilities go. However, I think that line of thinking results in a wait-and-see attitude, more than an outright dismissal. I can't honestly say as a player I will subscribe, as I'll have a local group and little aversion to making a character by hand. Though I do want to play a Bard, I think I can wait.
There's a secondary thing which I didn't see brought up, but maybe I missed. It was mentioned that there was no family/group rate. Why wouldn't my entire group chip in to gain access under one account, even on a monthly basis? We all chip in for food and share books, this really is no different.
I just thought about the true value of the Rules Database and it's actually pretty astounding. If they are actually going to put all their published material in a searchable database, that's not a bad deal at all!
But it makes me wonder, won't they sell less books that way? That made me think further... maybe they'd RATHER sell less books if they could pursue an active subscription base? Is it possible that WotC is attempting to make D&D a digital product, with physical books as an aside? It's been rumored and denied many times, but this move makes me wonder.
Now, while $14.95 a month for access to EVERY source book printed is not a horrible value, plus all the other tools included, I still believe it's asking too much for most gamers.
Most D&D players don't need access to every source book and certainly don't want to pay for it. The WotC staff has said several times today that the different Splat books will not be flooding the market because they will be targeted to specific players "The Martial Powers book will only be of interest to players who play Martial characters" (paraphrased).
Basing the subscription price of DDI around a Rules Database seems to against the above strategy.
And too the poster saying $140 a year isn't too much to spend on entertainment... you're right! But most D&D players already have other hobbies: the occasional video game, perhaps an MMO (or two), movies, DVDs, miniatures/action figures, going out to eat, miniature golf, paintball, etc.
$140 a year ADDITIONAL to other entertainment expenses, just to play D&D across the net with your buddies once a month, isn't going to appeal to many players.
But it makes me wonder, won't they sell less books that way? That made me think further... maybe they'd RATHER sell less books if they could pursue an active subscription base? Is it possible that WotC is attempting to make D&D a digital product, with physical books as an aside? It's been rumored and denied many times, but this move makes me wonder.
Now, while $14.95 a month for access to EVERY source book printed is not a horrible value, plus all the other tools included, I still believe it's asking too much for most gamers.
Most D&D players don't need access to every source book and certainly don't want to pay for it. The WotC staff has said several times today that the different Splat books will not be flooding the market because they will be targeted to specific players "The Martial Powers book will only be of interest to players who play Martial characters" (paraphrased).
Basing the subscription price of DDI around a Rules Database seems to against the above strategy.
And too the poster saying $140 a year isn't too much to spend on entertainment... you're right! But most D&D players already have other hobbies: the occasional video game, perhaps an MMO (or two), movies, DVDs, miniatures/action figures, going out to eat, miniature golf, paintball, etc.
$140 a year ADDITIONAL to other entertainment expenses, just to play D&D across the net with your buddies once a month, isn't going to appeal to many players.
Pale
First Post
Glyfair said:
Which are mostly free?
Here's the thing. It is directly comparable to WoW because of the price that they are asking. People are seeing the same price and comparing the services provided. That is a completely fair comparison.
If it's the WoW factor that bothers you, I'm sure that people making this comparison with any other MMO on the market that charges $10 to $15 a month.
LeaderDesslok
First Post
These prices have effectively made the DDI, and very likely 4E itself, dead to me and my group.
1. None of my players will be willing to pay admission to play a game, even if it is just $3
2. The monthly rate is equivalent to what one would pay for WoW, LotRO, or some other online game. That would be great if I was logging in to D&D to play an actual online game, but 90% of the time I will be looking at reference text.
3. Since it's a rules database, does that mean all the artwork is pulled? I could see them maybe including pics of the monsters, but what about the art from the PH and DMG? It's not integral to my enjoyment, but it does help give one some atmosphere and even context to what one is reading.
4. I don't want to pay extra money for the Dragon and Dungeon content, because I wll never read the damn thing online (and I never read Dungeon anyway). I like reading my Dragon in bed, lying on the couch, or sitting on the crappy commuter rail. I can't do that with a laptop. Just give me a monthly print copy that I can choose to buy or not buy at my FLGS. Better yet, I'll stick with Kobold Quarterly.
5. I get all the rules from all the books published, not just the book I bought. This actually isn't so bad, but I think 3 out of every 5 WotC 3.5 books were crap, and I have no reason to believe this trend will end with the advent of 4E. Why do I care if crappy add-ons are availalbe to me?
5. I'm getting a "3D virtual tabletop" with 2D miniatures? With no way to display things like a flying of levitating character/monster? Explain how is this 3D?
Sadly, I lost my "real" job a year and a half ago when my division closed down, and I am now barely scraping by with two part-time jobs. I have cut out every luxury expense I have, and DDI being a definite luxury item, will not be on my radar. Even after I eventually get a good job again (hopefully soon!) it's not looking too good for DDI. I'd rather put the $14.95/month towards a real MMORPG like the upcoming Conan game.
But that's just me.
1. None of my players will be willing to pay admission to play a game, even if it is just $3
2. The monthly rate is equivalent to what one would pay for WoW, LotRO, or some other online game. That would be great if I was logging in to D&D to play an actual online game, but 90% of the time I will be looking at reference text.
3. Since it's a rules database, does that mean all the artwork is pulled? I could see them maybe including pics of the monsters, but what about the art from the PH and DMG? It's not integral to my enjoyment, but it does help give one some atmosphere and even context to what one is reading.
4. I don't want to pay extra money for the Dragon and Dungeon content, because I wll never read the damn thing online (and I never read Dungeon anyway). I like reading my Dragon in bed, lying on the couch, or sitting on the crappy commuter rail. I can't do that with a laptop. Just give me a monthly print copy that I can choose to buy or not buy at my FLGS. Better yet, I'll stick with Kobold Quarterly.
5. I get all the rules from all the books published, not just the book I bought. This actually isn't so bad, but I think 3 out of every 5 WotC 3.5 books were crap, and I have no reason to believe this trend will end with the advent of 4E. Why do I care if crappy add-ons are availalbe to me?
5. I'm getting a "3D virtual tabletop" with 2D miniatures? With no way to display things like a flying of levitating character/monster? Explain how is this 3D?
Sadly, I lost my "real" job a year and a half ago when my division closed down, and I am now barely scraping by with two part-time jobs. I have cut out every luxury expense I have, and DDI being a definite luxury item, will not be on my radar. Even after I eventually get a good job again (hopefully soon!) it's not looking too good for DDI. I'd rather put the $14.95/month towards a real MMORPG like the upcoming Conan game.
But that's just me.
Fallen Seraph
First Post
I don't think they will sell less books. Since well for one your just getting the rules not the fluff or art.
Plus you won't be getting any adventures, or non-rule based supplements. So a supplement all about building a city if there are not rules in it, you won't get any of that, etc.
Also nothing truly beats having a book in your own hands.
So, while the Rule Database is definitely worth the price, I think they will sell their same number of books.
Plus you won't be getting any adventures, or non-rule based supplements. So a supplement all about building a city if there are not rules in it, you won't get any of that, etc.
Also nothing truly beats having a book in your own hands.
So, while the Rule Database is definitely worth the price, I think they will sell their same number of books.
Christoph the Magus
Explorer
Dragonblade said:
For me, the problem isn't the whole package, it's that I'm only interested in one thing (the character builder) and I don't want to pay $120 a year for a character generator that I lose access to as soon as my subscription is over.
It's only a good deal if you want everything that lumped together. Without a buy-it-piecemeal option I'm out.
AZRogue
Explorer
If the DDI is useful, I'll sign up. I don't imagine that I'd be using the online table/gaming part of the program, unless it's to play in a game with some people here. I might like the other features if they're robust enough and useful enough. I'm a bit wary after the whole Master Tools thing.
But, if it's useful, $120 a year isn't much. I don't need to replace all my DvDs with BluRay discs yet anyway.
But, if it's useful, $120 a year isn't much. I don't need to replace all my DvDs with BluRay discs yet anyway.
Lonely Tylenol
First Post
Yeah, me too. I don't expect to shell out for this simply because I don't look forward to playing games online. I just can't imagine I'd like the experience. I am upset that I won't be able to use the 4e equivalent of d20srd.org without paying $10/month for the privilege, but I guess they're trying to corner the market on convenience there. Too bad for them it's not worth $10/month to me.Cadfan said:
JRRNeiklot
First Post
Henry said:
But I play D&D once a week. 4 times a month. Closer to 3, actually, since we inevitably cancel at least once a month due to schedule conflicts. I play WoW just about every day. So, 4 bucks a shot to play D&D, vs 50 cents to play WoW (At 15 bucks a month).
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