Re: Wiz vs Sorc
Redevil621 said:
Hands down, the wiz is all around better. while nearly everything comes down to the campaign, and the dms lenience towards magic items and scrolls, a wiz is nearly better in almost every single aspect of play. Im prity bias, since iv always thought the sorc was just a rip off class that they added for the sake of class #'s, but i can defend my reasoning rather well
just to put things into perspective, a 7th level wizard could completely destroy a 7th level sorc. The second he cast minor globe of invulnerability, u might as well run as far away as possible. The 8 or so fireballs or hastes wont do anything to him, since the sorc levels slower, and has very few spells to work with, there is almost no chance of victory
True Strike has no effect to be stopped by the Minor Globe. It ends in 7 rounds anyway. That'll be six 1st level spells (and a haste) for 6d8 of crossbow damage for the wizard (the sorcerer starts with shield, to avoid magic missiles). There are lots of other ways around the minor globe.
The fact that a sorc has to spend the whole round casting a meta magic feet is another setback that proves fatal. While a wiz can cast a quickened spell (which a sorc cant), and be hasted, meaning he can drop 2 fireballs as well, he can easily overwhelm his opponents. sure it requires some more preperation as to whats to come, but i think players have a good idea as to when they will enter combat and when they wont.
An FRA isn't as bad as a full round spell. Metamagics are the meat and potatoes of sorcerers. The sorcerer can still cast and move five feet, the spell still goes off right away. A hasted wizard casting quickened fireballs is at least 13th level. The sorcerer can safely sit inside his Globe, or Minor Globe, or Antimagic shell. See pot v kettle. Sorcerers *can* cast quickened spells, they just don't do a lot of good (except to avoid AoO's) but most of the sorcerers I know in the 12+ level range either have a ring of spellstoring or the scribe scroll feat AND the quickened feat. Makes it all worthwhile having a few quickened scrolls or quickened spells in a stored ring slot.
Sure a sorc can cast his met magic feats on the fly, but big deal when the list of spells he can enhance are so limited. I doubt a sorc will ever use half of the met magic feats out there, such as extend, which is really only useful with enchantment spells like hold person and dominate or maybe true seeing, mainly because they are so limited on choices
I've found extend the most popular metamagic feat for sorcerers, for use with the buff spells, though that will probably change in 3.5. An Extended Cat's Grace and Extended Mage Armor can cover a sorcerer all day with just one 2nd and one 3rd level spell. The FRA is even less trouble when casting sitting around the campfire.
Sure a wizard has a spell book, and that may prove to be a "Hindrance" at times, such as it can be stolen, or u have to put a considerable amount of money and time into it, but everu wizard u kill has a spell book, and his spells can be used, added or even sold off from what u already know, expanding the wizards capabilities.
There's the rub. You can't really sell a stolen spellbook for anything near full value, unless you use the Forgotten Realms rules. By the core rules, you can't prepare a spell from a borrowed spellbook unless you already have it scribed. Thus, stealing one isn't terribly profitable, since it only saves you on research costs. At three pounds a shot, a spellbook does begin to encumber low strength wizards, or at least make them invest in storage devices, like bags of holding and their like.
Sorc may be powerhouses, when they can cast nearly double to offensive spells a wizard can produce, but a wizard can also cast tactically, and try to disable his opponents with versatility, where a sorc cant.
The sorcerer also knows as many spells as the wizard can cast (roughly), so in theory a well-thought-out sorcerer can know every spell a wizard has prepared.
Finally, the most key element to any spell caster is the DC for his spells. While a sorc at 10th level may have 20 Charisma, and 4 (Human) feats to spend to knock up the DC of his spells, such as spell focus, and greater spell focus, a wizard has 6 feats to spend. Those 2 extra feats could mean the difference between the rouge who will drop u next round making his save against the lightning bolt u just cast on him, or anything else.
The bonus feats at 10th level equate to two item creation or two metamagic feats, not DC increasers (except Heighten). The 10th level Human Wizards has 8 feats (one scribe scroll, two either metamagic or item creation). The Sorcerer has 5 feats. Pretty close, since sorcerers tend not to take item creation feats that often anyway (except see scribe scroll or forge ring, above).
Bottom line, Sorc are "powerhouse" weaklings who cant deal with conditions that may be unfavorable in any way. They have the small amount of spells they chose, and thats it. While they can cast a lot of spells, there are so many spells that they would never choose, but are such an important element to Arcane casters, that it seems unheard of to me to be one. But if you cant handle the choices that spell memorization requires, or have trouble raising the funds (??? there are so many ways to raise money with versatile magic its not even funny) then by all means, be a sorc
I've found the opposite to be true. Wizards tend to prepare spells they don't need and the slots wind up wasted.
PS. All u kids who make "themed" sorc should be dragged into the streets and shot... u want to deal with undead or phisically draining spells, be a necromancer, or some guy who summons monsters and other jacked up stuff, be a Conjurer...
Uh. Sure. Themed sorcerers tend to be more "fun" IMO, though that's harder to quantify. Since sorcerer "specialists" don't have opposed schools, it's easier for them to pick up balanced spells to round out their repetoire.
It boils down to this: sorcerers still prepare spells, but their preparation is in their spell list, not in what they prepare every day. Wizards are better at making money off of item creation, but conversely spend a lot more money to increase their spell selection. While wizards are spending money on their spellbooks for rare spells, sorcerers can take the same capital and invest it (at about a 2:1 rate, admittedly), on buying scrolls or wands to cover the exact same gaps.
Personally I prefer sorcerers since I have more fun with them, but won't tout either class as being out-and-out superior.
Greg
your arguments are still one-dimensional IMO (and since you start out by admitting your bias...)
