Sorcerer spell chains?

[der_kluge]

I seem to recall reading on here somewhere that some people had come up with spell chains - that is, sequences of spells that replace lower level spells. I.e., limited geas -> geas, or limited wish -> wish.

The idea being that a variant sorcerer rule would allow sorcerers to effectively *replace* lower versions of spells with the more powerful version without consuming an additional spell slot. But they could still continue to cast the lower powered version if they desired.

I've worked up a fairly decent spell chain list, but was curious if there was anything out there that had already been done?

 

[Ace32]

Well, Wizards did something like that with their Mind's Eye feats for psionics. The chains and stuff, similar to what you are saying. Check those out on their website to get some ideas for balance, but I think its a worthwhile feat.

 

[der_kluge]

Sorcerer Spell Chaining
Spell chaining is the process of replacing a previously known spell with a higher level version. In doing so, the sorcerer upgrades the older version to the new version, and does not count that new spell towards his total spell slots known. For example, Annelise has just reached 8th level, and gains a 4th level spell. She has been able to cast charm person since 1st level. She upgrades her charm person to charm monster – the next spell in that chain. By upgrading charm person to charm monster, she does not count charm monster as her new 4th level spell. She may select a new 4th level spell as if she had never learned charm monster. Spells in a spell chain are never lost, and Annelise could continue to cast charm person if she desired. However, spells in a spell chain can not be skipped. Annelise could not skip charm monster and take dominate person at 10th level.

Spell Chains
Protection from chaos/evil/good/law -> Magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law

Endure elements -> resist elements -> protection from elements

Summon monster I -> summon monster II -> summon monster III -> summon monster IV -> summon monster V -> summon monster VI -> summon monster VII -> summon monster VIII -> summon monster IX

Comprehend languages -> tongues

Misdirection -> nondetection -> false vision -> screen

Charm person -> charm monster -> dominate person -> mass charm -> dominate monster

Teleport -> teleport without error -> teleportation circle

Change self -> alter self ->polymorph self -> shapechange

Prismatic ray* -> prismatic spray -> prismatic wall -> prismatic sphere

Locate object -> locate creature -> discern location -> improved discern location*

Minor globe of invulnerability -> Globe of invulnerability -> Spell turning -> Protection from spells

Cause fear -> scare -> fear

Circle of death -> Finger of death

Bigby’s interposing hand -> Bigby’s forceful hand -> Bigby’s grasping hand -> Bigby’s clenched fist -> Bigby’s crushing hand

Shocking grasp -> lightning bolt -> chain lightning

Lesser geas -> geas

Limited wish -> wish

Lesser planar binding -> planar binding -> greater planar binding

Dispel magic -> greater dispelling -> mordenkainen’s disjunction

Magic jar -> trap the soul

Confusion -> insanity

Burning hands -> flaming sphere -> fireball -> delayed blast fireball -> meteor swarm

Chill touch -> snowball* -> ice storm -> blizzard* -> ice meteors*

Minor creation -> major creation -> drawmij’s instant summons

Magic weapon -> greater magic weapon

Message -> whispering wind -> sending -> demand

Identify -> legend lore -> vision

Detect magic -> analyze dweomer

Suggestion -> mass suggestion

Hold person -> hold monster

Invisibility -> invisibility sphere -> improved invisibility -> mass invisibility

Stoneskin -> iron body

Phantasmal killer -> weird

Shadow conjuration -> greater shadow conjuration -> shades

Shadow evocation -> greater shadow evocation

Silent image -> Minor image -> Major image -> persistent image -> permanent image

Haste -> mass haste

Scrying -> greater scrying

Dismissal -> banishment -> imprisonment

Blur -> displacement -> mislead -> simulacrum

Shadow walk -> etherealness -> astral projection

Feather fall -> levitate -> fly -> mass fly**

Melf’s acid arrow -> acid bath*

Obscuring mist -> fog cloud -> stinking cloud -> solid fog -> cloudkill -> acid fog -> incendiary cloud

Seeming -> veil

Explosive runes -> fire trap

Reduce -> shrink item

Rope trick -> leomund’s tiny hut -> leomund’s secure shelter -> leomund’s secret chest -> mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion

Otiluke’s resilient sphere -> otiluke’s freezing sphere -> otiluke’s telekinetic sphere

* Spell from Bluffside
** new spell

 

[handforged]

I would say that such an ability should at least cost a feat, and could only be done once per spell gained. To refer to die_kluge's example, when Annelise reaches 8th level and gains the new level 4 spell, she may upgrade one chain to its fourth level counterpart, and then must spend the spell slot as normal.

It might also be necessary to say that a sorceror cannot start a chain late. Using the list above, Annelise couldn't upgrade her fireball to delayed blast fireball unless she also had burning hands and flaming sphere. This would help to limit the number of chains which get advanced as well, since high level abuse of certain chains could occur. A sorceror could wait until the fourth or fifth spell in the chain and then get an 8th or 9th level spell for free.

This will definitely make machine-gun sorcerors pretty powerful. If Boris the Boomer took the Spell Chaining feat at first level (and so could use it at every level he gained a spell), he could get...

The $ are spells I added to the lists, and I removed the non-PHB spells.

Shocking grasp 1 -> lightning bolt 3 -> chain lightning 6

Burning hands 1 -> flaming sphere 2 -> fireball 3 -> delayed blast fireball 7 -> meteor swarm 9

Chill touch 1 -> ice storm 4 -> cone of cold$ 5

Obscuring mist 1 -> fog cloud 2 -> stinking cloud 3 -> solid fog 4 -> cloudkill 5 -> acid fog 6 -> incendiary cloud 8

Color Spray$ 1 -> Prismatic spray 7 -> prismatic wall 8 -> prismatic sphere 9

That's 2 @ second, 3 @ third, 2 @ fourth, 2@ fifth, 2 @ sixth, 2 @ seventh, 2 @ eighth, and 2 @ ninth. A total of seventeen free spells. All of these chains could be achieved using only 5 level one spell slots, gained by character level seven. This does not count using higher level slots to gain access quicker, and overall would be worth the early sacrifice, since you can still get the free spell of the higher level before you decide to use the slot for a lower level spell.

Boris would be quite the boomer with all of those spells plus all the other spells his real spell slots would provide.

~hf

 

[Aazenius]

I like the Spell Chain idea a lot! I am considering allowing the sorcerer in my world to do this. Here is how I would implement this into my game. Currently you have 49 different spell chains. I would eliminate the current way sorcerers gain their spells. Instead they would chose 1 spell chain each time they level. So by 20th level they could cast spells from 20 of the spell chains.

There may be a more elegant way to do this... but i'm to tired to think of it right now... maybe i'll come up with something tomorrow.

 

[der_kluge]

Handforged, you bring up some good points, especially about not allowing them to start in the middle of a spell chain.

I could see a feat being perfectly suitable for this ability. Will have to think on that one a bit.

Aazenius, only allowing sorcerers choose from these chains eliminates many spells, like mirror image, or even magic missile.

 

[handforged]

Since one of the main drawbacks of playing a sorceror is limited numbers of spells, and this effectively removes that disadvantage, I think that there should be some pretty stiff requirements. Depending on how you look at a sorceror, this could either be by making it so that Sorcerors have massive amounts of knowledge about magic, or are just capable of handling more power.

Spell Chaining(General)

You can cast spells related to spells you already know, due to your increased understanding of channeling the magical energies involved.

Prerequisites: Spellcaster level 5+, Spell Focus, Spontaneous Arcane Spellcasting

Benefit: When gaining a new spell upon level advancement, you may choose one spell from any school you have Spell Focus in that is one level less than the highest level spell you can cast. You gain access to this spell as if you had learned it, but it does not count as the spell gained from level advancement. You cannot skip a spell in a chain in order to gain a higher level spell first.



This way, no ninth level spells will be granted for free, and the free spell will always be slightly less appealing. At sixth level, when you gain a third level spell, you can upgrade a chain to a second level spell, but this will only matter if you haven't already learned the spell with a normal second level slot.

I think that this would be worth a feat, effectively two feats, but spell focus is not a worthless feat by any means, especially as most Sorcerors tend to be pretty focused.

~hf

 

[der_kluge]

In general, I do like the approach. I tend to give PCs more power (because my games are hard), so I'll probably tweak that somewhat. It does balance out a little because it requires that sorcerer's focus, and if they take 5 spell chains, they have to take all the requisite spells in the process. So, it does impose a lot of restriction on them.

 

[handforged]

What restrictions do you think you will change? Not being able to pick spells at your highest level?

 

[MadScientist]

Sean K Reynolds has some rules on his site for "Path Magic" that has some similar ideas to those being presented here. I thought I would post the link.

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/pathmagic.html

Enjoy!