Sorcerer Spell Research

[Shayuri]

Here's my interpretation of existing rules on spell research where sorcerors are involved.

1) A sorceror can initiate spell research in exactly the same manner as a wizard, and at any time. He doesn't have to have any "open" spell picks available to him to begin research. Sorcerors know just as much about magic as wizards do (albeit typically suffer a bit in comparison due to lower Intelligence scores), and can easily use those skills to learn how to manipulate magic to produce new and unique effects.

2) The sorceror cannot, however, LEARN the new spell until and unless a spell pick of the appropriate level is available. Until then, the spell's theory is known, but the sorceror has not yet managed to "internalize" it, or create that effect using his own innate magic. However, the researched spell IS added to the list of potential spells that can be selected from.

3) Once a new spell pick of the right level becomes available, the sorceror may choose the researched spell normally.

This does mean that spell research for sorcerors can lead to protracted periods of time when the spell exists only "on paper." But the key to a successful sorceror is -always- planning on the part of the player. If he wants his sorceror to do spell research, he (the player) should work it out with you well in advance, so he can time it in-game to be close to a time when the character will have slots of the right level coming up.

And here, to make my post intolerably long, is an idea I had for house-ruling spell research for sorcerors.

Namely, that sorcerors don't really hit the books for spell research. Rather, the player and GM work together normally to determine the spell's viability and level as per usual, but rather than saying sorcerors spend a week per level and gold to research it...you just say that the spell can be freely selected by the sorceror next time he gains a spell pick of that level. The "research" is the same process that causes a sorceror to level up in the first place. A gradual growth of insight into himself that unlocks new magical powers.

This rule may or may not be workable...haven't put much thought into it yet. I see right away that it would result in sorcerors having a ton of weird and unusual spells...which I personally think they SHOULD. There's no reason why sorcery should be as strictly regimented and rote as wizardry, since they don't learn the same spells from the same books in the same way from the same teachers.

On the other hand, it also means a lot more work from both player and GM...and it increases the chances of abusive game material being introduced should the GM experience a moment of weakness. Using this rule would require the player to be open to revision, should a new spell turn out to be unexpectedly horrible for its level.

 

[Merlion]

I apreciate your input, but what you have put forth is basically the current rules. I do not want Sorcerers to have to neccesarilly gain a level before they can actually use their newly created spell.

Their are really only two options to do away with this. One is to let the new spell replace an existing known spell. I dont really care for this since its still the Sorcerer basically sacrificing a spell to be able to learn their new one.

The other is to allow them by one means or other, to learn it as an additional spell known. This is what I plan to do, with some sort of XP cost attached.

 

[LazerPointer]

I apreciate your input, but what you have put forth is basically the current rules. I do not want Sorcerers to have to neccesarilly gain a level before they can actually use their newly created spell.

Their are really only two options to do away with this. One is to let the new spell replace an existing known spell. I dont really care for this since its still the Sorcerer basically sacrificing a spell to be able to learn their new one.

The other is to allow them by one means or other, to learn it as an additional spell known. This is what I plan to do, with some sort of XP cost attached.

I think you'd also have to put a cap on it, so you don't have a really versitile sorceror doin all the killing. I'd probably make em sacrifice one spell slot to be able to create 1d4 new spells of that level.

 

[Iceflame55]

Namely, that sorcerors don't really hit the books for spell research. Rather, the player and GM work together normally to determine the spell's viability and level as per usual, but rather than saying sorcerors spend a week per level and gold to research it...you just say that the spell can be freely selected by the sorceror next time he gains a spell pick of that level. The "research" is the same process that causes a sorceror to level up in the first place. A gradual growth of insight into himself that unlocks new magical powers.

I like this Idea. I wouldn't get rid of the Time Cost though; instead of spending the time in a tower reading tons of musty old tomes though, they meditate or something similar; something that allows them to reach the same conclusions a wizard would that was trying to research. And to make the Sorcerer even more unique:

Rule: New Spells researched by a Sorcerer are SORCERER ONLY. If a Wizard wants that spell, he'll have to research it himself. Reason: Sorcerers have an innate magic; they can't take magic apart and put back together in the same way as Wizards. Any magics they 'research' is as noted a personal realization of their innate potenial, and as such a Wizard cannot duplicate it, until and unless they research the spell.

 

[Iceflame55]

I think you'd also have to put a cap on it, so you don't have a really versitile sorceror doin all the killing. I'd probably make em sacrifice one spell slot to be able to create 1d4 new spells of that level.

Hmm, I think I'll be using this Idea myself. Sacrifice a spell slot, but gain 1-4 spells known would be fairly balenced, and would make Sorcers far more unique. One could have a Sorcerer that cast half as many times, but had a staggering number tricks up his sleeve. If you rolled a 1d4 and treated all 1s as 2, you would also have a degree of randomness showing the possibility of some bloodlines being weaker than others .

 

[Merlion]

I think you'd also have to put a cap on it, so you don't have a really versitile sorceror doin all the killing. I'd probably make em sacrifice one spell slot to be able to create 1d4 new spells of that level.

Hmm. This is interesting, but I'm not sure what the internal logic would be.

 

[LazerPointer]

Hmm. This is interesting, but I'm not sure what the internal logic would be.

The alternative is to draw the line somewhere between 1-5 spells per level that they're able to create, but I don't like how predictable that is. By sacrificing 1 slot for 1d4, the player is taking a risk, as opposed to having a guaranteed power boost. Also, the player will probably end up with more spells some levels than others. Just seems to relfect better the inate, random potential of the sorceror.

 

[Merlion]

The alternative is to draw the line somewhere between 1-5 spells per level that they're able to create, but I don't like how predictable that is. By sacrificing 1 slot for 1d4, the player is taking a risk, as opposed to having a guaranteed power boost. Also, the player will probably end up with more spells some levels than others. Just seems to relfect better the inate, random potential of the sorceror

Well, I mean the internal logic for why a sorcerer must give up some of their power in order to create a new spell.

 

[ARandomGod]

All I am interested in is allowing sorcerers to research/create new spells whenever they want and have the time, instead of having to wait for a certain level when they are able to learn a new one.


I am currently thinking I will probably have it be that they do it as normal for my world (that is to say, spend no money, just the 1 week/spell level in time in apropriate surroundings) plus, for a sorcerer or bard, 100 XP per level of the new spell. And its just added as an additional spell known.

That would be WAY over the top as far as power level for a sorc (IMO).
Research as a part of normal spells being known is a different story. But there needs to be some sort of set finite limit on sorc spells known.

And, I think allowing them a potential 0-3 xtra spells known per level is a bit much. That's an average of two per level, or an (average) extra 40 spells known by 20th level. And that's of every level, not just 40 spell levels (which would also be over the top IMO)

Now, I use an alternate sorc, which can swap out spells whenever he likes, at the cost of some serious time. (You can remove a spell known from the list and prepare a new spell known, the time it takes to do this is equal to the level of the spell squared in days. During this time the sorc doesn't have access to that spell known). This allows the sorcs to do research, gives them a reason to have a spell book (for spell swapping), while preventing them from becoming too powerful in terms of spells known.

I also have two feats which increase the power of spellcasters.

(Short version)
Lesser Matrix:
You can memorize an additional number of spell levels equal to your int modifier. This does not increase the number of spells you can cast per day.
--> This allows a sorc to memorize spells, or a wizard to memorize additional spells, to give him more choice when casting spells. It can be taken more than once, it's effects stack.

Greater Matrix:
You can lay an additional number of spell levels equal to your Cha modifier as one or more spell matrixes.
(I call Sorc "spells known" spell matrixes. This effectively gives a wizard spells known like a sorc, which he can power with unmemorized spell slots in castins per day, or it allows the sorc to know more spells. It can be taken more than once and it's effects stack).

The feats and the ability to swap out the spells known allow for a much greater flexibility in the sorc, and the feats allow extra spells known within limits...
Memorization is called a lesser matrix because that's how it came into being, intelligent students who couldn't lay a real matrix learned a lesser matrix, that could only be powered once...

 

[Merlion]

That would be WAY over the top as far as power level for a sorc (IMO).

Why, specfically?

Now, I use an alternate sorc, which can swap out spells whenever he likes, at the cost of some serious time. (You can remove a spell known from the list and prepare a new spell known, the time it takes to do this is equal to the level of the spell squared in days. During this time the sorc doesn't have access to that spell known). This allows the sorcs to do research, gives them a reason to have a spell book (for spell swapping), while preventing them from becoming too powerful in terms of spells known.

My whole point is, I dont want Sorcerers to have to give up more than the other classes for researching spells. Or at least not much more (such as spell swapping). Thats why I thought an XP cost might be good.