Sorcerer with Domain Access (Complete Champion) -- how does this work?

[Sound of Azure]

So the sorcerer would eventually need a 19 Wisdom in order to cast his highest-level domain spell? I'm not sure I like that; he might as well take the Arcane Disciple feat then, rather than this alternative class feature.

Arcane Disciple has the same Wisdom requirement anyway, so 19 Wisdom is required for the maximum benefit there too.

Anyone remember if the section on gaining additional domains in Complete Divine addresses this issue?

Here's the apropriate section:

If the noncleric is a spontaneous caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would
have an option to choose a new known spell. A sorcerer does not get to exceed his normal limit of spells known. Once the domain spell is known, the sorcerer may cast it freely.
Unless the prestige class specifi es otherwise, such spells are considered arcane spells when cast by arcane spellcasters.

 

[Pazu]

Yes, I was wondering how different the alternative class feature and the feat are. The sound the same in practice, but that you get the domain power with the alternative.

I don't remember if Arcane Disciple requires that you give up one spell known per level, though; does it?

 

[Pazu]

Arcane Disciple has the same Wisdom requirement anyway, so 19 Wisdom is required for the maximum benefit there too.

Well, that's what I meant: if I need to pump Wisdom (as well as Charisma, naturally, for a sorcerer) to gain the most benefit from this alternative class feature, I might as well take Arcane Disciple instead. The description of the Domain Access alternative class feature actually says nothing about what stat the domain spells are based on.

Here's the apropriate section:

That would support the idea that domain spells acquired by arcane casters through means other than prestige classes should also be treated as arcane spells.

Edit: Clarification.

 

[Sound of Azure]

I don't remember if Arcane Disciple requires that you give up one spell known per level, though; does it?

No, the spells from the domain are just added to the pool of spells (that is, your class spell list) that you can choose from when you gain new spells, or swap existing spells for new ones.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Well, that's what I meant: if I need to pump Wisdom (as well as Charisma, naturally, for a sorcerer) to gain the most benefit from this alternative class feature, I might as well take Arcane Disciple instead. The description of the Domain Access alternative class feature actually says nothing about what stat the domain spells are based on.

Ah, I see. I must have misunderstood you.

Strange that the alternative class feature doesn't state this. Could it be that the domain spells (from this class feature) are treated as normal sorcerer spells?

That would support the idea that domain spells acquired by arcane casters through means other than prestige classes should also be treated as arcane spells.

Hmm. Food for thought, yes.

 

[Pazu]

No, the spells from the domain are just added to the pool of spells (that is, your class spell list) that you can choose from when you gain new spells, or swap existing spells for new ones.

In which case, Arcane Disciple and Domain Access (for sorcerers) sound fairly balanced with one another in terms of costs and benefits.

Arcane Disciple: Benefits: Add domain spells to your class spell list, which you can presumably cast as often as you could cast any other spell you know. Costs: One feat; domain spell access governed by a different stat from your primary casting stat (Wisdom vs. Charisma).

Domain Access: Benefits: Allows you to cast one domain spell of each level once per day. Costs: You know one fewer spell of each level you're able to cast.

I would think that in the latter case, being able to cast only your 3rd-level domain spell, once a day, at 6th level (as opposed to a normal sorcerer casting his single 3rd-level sor/wiz spell at least 3/day) is a severe enough tradeoff without adding a second stat dependency on top of it. If I remember the sorcerer spell progression correctly, the same issue will come up at every succeeding even-numbered level as well.

 

[Pazu]

Strange that the alternative class feature doesn't state this. Could it be that the domain spells (from this class feature) are treated as normal sorcerer spells?

Aside from the once per day usage (which seems to be a hard limit that can't be increased though high stats), I would be inclined to treat them as such. Otherwise, it seems unfairly restrictive.

That section in the book seems rather poorly-edited. The wording is peculiar, and obviously more detail is needed.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Arcane Disciple: Benefits: Add domain spells to your class spell list, which you can presumably cast as often as you could cast any other spell you know.

Close!

Each day, you may prepare (or cast, if you cast spells without preparation) a maximum of one of these domains spells of each level.

 

[Pazu]

Close!

Ah, interesting. So either way, you get to cast one domain spell per level per day. In that case:

Arcane Disciple: You know the normal number of spells for your level; it costs a feat, and depends on a stat other than your primary caster stat.

Domain Access: You know one fewer spell per level than you would otherwise, but until someone says otherwise, you use your usual caster stat.

I still think these are balanced with respect to one another, but I'd be curious to know if anyone feels otherwise.

 

[Vysirez]

I think Arcane Disciple is ok, and Domain Access sucks. Sorcs are fairly limited in spells know as is. Lowering that by 1 per lvl, just to gain a single domain isn't worth it. If you could cast each of the domain spells more then once it might be worth it, but just once per day is too little of a benefit.