Sorcerers and spell components. What were they thinking!

[Xavim]

Just wondering how many of you guys that use material components in your campeigns make sorcerers have to use them? That rule has always bothered me. It says a sorcerer doesn't study for their spells and that they simply have "raw power that they direct at will" What's the point in having the ability to call upon any of your spells at any time in any situation if you have to worry about whether or not you have components?

Also, where would the the sorcerer learn about the components? Where they walking in a cave one day and just happened to slip in some bat dung resulting in the immolation of the area from the resulting fireball? Or true strike. How many people would come across a small amulet that's shaped like an archery target? For me it doesn't make logical sense and has always bothered me.

 

[Crothian]

WEll, the sorcerer somehow learns the spell, I'd say allowing them to know what the material component is would be just as easy. They automatically know what the words are and what the jestures are, why would material components be any different?

Arcane magic is arcane magic. It doesn't matter how one learned to cast the fireball spell, its cast the same way. That is why they have material components.

 

[Xavim]

Well just because it requires gestures, doesn't mean they're the same ones. While the wizard would be waving their arms in strange arcane patterns, the sorcerer could be simply cupping his hands and thrusting them foreward. Sort of a primitive 'I'm send this spell here' approach.

 

[Crothian]

If they use different gestures then how do people identify the spell through spellcraft? There is a feat that allows casters to change the motions and it gives a minus to other spellcraft rolls. So, if the Sorcerer and Wizard were different that minus would already be built into the core rules.

 

[Umbran]

Considering that for the most part having the spell components is no more difficult than saying "I have a spell component pouch" I don't think that requiring their use is really limiting the sorcerer in any notable way. Requiring the components only rarely keeps the caster from calling upon their ability. It's about as restrictive as requiring verbal and somantic components, which is to say, not very.

 

[Xavim]

Except for when the sorcerer is captured, surprised, or otherwise in seperated from that pouch. Its the logic of the rule that's bothering me. A Sorcerer should not require components to continue to make up for its lack of Versitility to help make it on par with Wizards.

 

[Quasqueton]

The "logic" that I find bothersome is the concept that sorcerers don't study or train in any way to get and hone their abilities.

Note that knowledge (arcana) and spellcraft are both on the sorcerer's skill list. Does that knowledge also come out of thin air because the sorcerer has an innate talent for magic? No, they get tutilage and training from someone.

If sorcerers had truly and totally innate spell abilities, they would use spell-like abilities, not spells.

Sorcerers have to train and practice for their abilities just like any other class and their abilities. A fighter doesn't just suddenly cleave through a foe into another without training. A cleric doesn't need a spellbook to gain spells, but he has to train to learn how to cast them. A rogue doesn't just start dodging fireballs one day without some practice and training. [Most of this training is done off screen or before the start of the campaign.]

Spell casting just *comes* differently to a sorcerer than a wizard. But they cast the same spells, with the same "magic laws". The fireball the sorcerer casts is the same one the wizard casts -- it's just that the sorcerer understands and can evoke the magic through force of will instead of through memorization/preparation.

Quasqueton

 

[Thanee]

If it bothers you that much, give them Eschew Material as a bonus feat at first level.

As a player, this feat allows you to play that kind of Sorcerer you have in mind, but I guess there are also some others, so they just don't all get it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Psion]

Just wondering how many of you guys that use material components in your campeigns make sorcerers have to use them? That rule has always bothered me. It says a sorcerer doesn't study for their spells and that they simply have "raw power that they direct at will" What's the point in having the ability to call upon any of your spells at any time in any situation if you have to worry about whether or not you have components?

Arcane magic doesn't have special rules that are different between sorcerers and wizards. It's the same spell, but the wizards has to study the spells and handcraft the raw magical energy; the sorcerer just shapes the spell by instinct. They are almost part of magic, and know the ways of it as if it were second nature to them.

Also, where would the the sorcerer learn about the components?

Again, instinct.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Just wondering how many of you guys that use material components in your campeigns make sorcerers have to use them?

I use material components in my campaign and right from the word go I removed them from sorcerers. IMC wizards use components as part of their formulae, sorcerers don't.

Cheers