Sorcerers and spell components. What were they thinking!

[Umbran]

Xavim is right - it doesn't make a lick of sense. Sorcerers can cast a spell without ever having learned it from anywhere. It's like one day waking up and being able to speak Lithuanian.

Well, duh! It's magic!

Sorry for the sarcastic tone, there, but the point is valid. We are talking about magic - energies that behave unlike anything seen in the mundane world. They don't have to make sense in a mundane fasion.

Waking up able to speak Lithuanian? In the real world, of course that doesnt' happen. In a world with magic, however, there's any number of ways to do that. Maybe some stray magical energy imprinted the knowledge in your brain. Or maybe you have a mystic connection to a "universal unconscous" or a race memory in which teh knowledge is stored.

Simply put - when you are talking about magic, you don't need to be able to explain things in mundane terms. Where'd he get the knowledge? Magic!

 

[Urbannen]

Well, duh! It's magic!

Sorry for the sarcastic tone, there, but the point is valid. We are talking about magic - energies that behave unlike anything seen in the mundane world. They don't have to make sense in a mundane fasion.

Waking up able to speak Lithuanian? In the real world, of course that doesnt' happen. In a world with magic, however, there's any number of ways to do that. Maybe some stray magical energy imprinted the knowledge in your brain. Or maybe you have a mystic connection to a "universal unconscous" or a race memory in which teh knowledge is stored.

Simply put - when you are talking about magic, you don't need to be able to explain things in mundane terms. Where'd he get the knowledge? Magic!

Then where did wizards get their knowledge of magic? Magic?

You say that in a world with magic there's any number of ways for a sorcerer to wake up in the morning knowing the components to a spell he's never even encountered before. Unfortunately the designers don't suggest even one of them. They don't even say "It is up to the DM to decide where a sorcerer's knowledge of his spells comes from." In the case of wizards and divine spellcasters, however, they say exactly where the knowledge of spells come from.

It's interesting to note that sorcerers can "wake up one morning" knowing any spell from the PHB, but in order to learn a spell not in the PHB, they have to find and learn it from a scroll or spellbook.

In D&D, magic is an understandable and controllable force. It follows rules, yes, rules, however illogical. There is an Intelligence based skill that allows you to understand the rules about spells. It is called Spellcraft. The PHB does not say how sorcerers come by their knowledge of PHB arcane spells, and in fact offers no suggestions.

There is an essential disconnect between the "flavor" of the sorcerer and the actual mechanics of the sorcerer class. The sorcerer's flavor is someone with innate magical powers. However, a sorcerer doesn't have innate magical powers. A sorcerer casts spells. They aren't the same, and there's no explanation given as to why that is.

 

[CaptainCalico]

In my campaign I have sorcerers use foci instead of material components - they must make a new foci for each new spell they learn and if the spell has a listed cost for material components then they have to spend that much to "repair" the foci after each use. It works, because they can still have the Foci taken away from them, like a wizard's component pouch, but I think it suits the flavor of the sorcerer a bit more. "Eschew Materials" become "Eschew Foci" and there you go.

 

[Estlor]

If you use the PHB standard explination of the sorcerer, their ability to tap into magic is the result of a latent bloodline descended from another race that has innate spellcasting or spell-like abilities.

We don't question how a dragon with sorcerer-equivalent spellcasting knows what components to use. The logic of the dragon - it's as natural to them as sleeping and breathing - is the same logic for the sorcerer. Because of their bloodline and ancestry, they just know the right gestures and the need for bat guano when they want to blast someone with a fireball.

The same is true for Spellcraft. Their innate, hereditary knowledge of magic allows them to identify and catalog magic through the Spellcraft skill.

As for Knowledge (Arcana), wouldn't you say all Knowledge skills imply a certain degree of formal or informal learning on the subject? They gain ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) through their exposure to the Arcana of day-to-day D&D life... that is, assuming the player chooses to make that an interest of the character by spending skill points on the skill.

You want a more logical answer? Sorry, one doesn't exist. That's the side-effect of a rules system that is necessarily generalized. This is no different than the idea of hit points and summarizing an entire round of activity in a single attack roll. Arcane magic works one way and the same for everyone because the designers want the system to use one set of rules to resolve all instances of the same event.

 

[reiella]

Just wondering how many of you guys that use material components in your campeigns make sorcerers have to use them? That rule has always bothered me. It says a sorcerer doesn't study for their spells and that they simply have "raw power that they direct at will" What's the point in having the ability to call upon any of your spells at any time in any situation if you have to worry about whether or not you have components?

Also, where would the the sorcerer learn about the components? Where they walking in a cave one day and just happened to slip in some bat dung resulting in the immolation of the area from the resulting fireball? Or true strike. How many people would come across a small amulet that's shaped like an archery target? For me it doesn't make logical sense and has always bothered me.

The second paragraph is part of the reason why sorcerers in my campaigns actually have some hoops to jump through before they get new spells (3.0 DMG p 42 for learning new spells).

To answer the question, simply put, balance in almost all cases. The sorcerer and wizard are both meant to be inhibited by losing access to their spell component pouch. The wizard is even more inhibited when captured due to the lack of a Spellbook.

And to the folks that let eschew ignore up to a couple hundred gp... Wow, you are generous. It's 1 gp as written .

 

[Umbran]

In the case of wizards and divine spellcasters, however, they say exactly where the knowledge of spells come from.

Actually, in the case of divine spellcasters, they don't say exactly. At least insofar as the core rules explicitly allow you to have clerics that don't follow gods. If there's no god, where do the spells come from?

In D&D, magic is an understandable and controllable force. It follows rules, yes, rules, however illogical.

Yes, but it does not follow world-based meta-rules. The rules state that wizards must study, clerics must have belief, and that sorcerers have an internal connection to power. But the rules don't say why study or belief, or internal power is necessary. Why can't one simply speak and waggle one's hands in the same manner and get the same effect? That's unstated. In that sense, the source of wizard power is as mysterious as the source of sorcerer power.

The PHB does not say how sorcerers come by their knowledge of PHB arcane spells, and in fact offers no suggestions.

Actually the PHB does offer a suggestion - dragon blood. Right there in the opening paragraphs of the class description. The knowledge comes from the magical blood in the character's veins.

The sorcerer's flavor is someone with innate magical powers. However, a sorcerer doesn't have innate magical powers.

Um, if you ask a Commoner, or a Wizard, I think you'd get a different view. The ability to cast spells without study or devotion or in fact any preparation is in and of itself an innate magical power.

 

[Benben]

I like the Monte Cook Sorcerer [3.0] which spent 1xp per 25gp cost of the component.

 

[seankreynolds]

From my opinions on the PH classes article (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/PH_opinions_classes.html):

Sorcerers and Material Components: Sorcerers, according to the PH rules, must use any components required for spells he casts. While a sorcerer’s knowledge is innate (while a wizard’s comes from study), he still needs to have the proper items to turn that knowledge into active magic. Ryan Dancey described it once at a Gen Con seminar: "The sorcerer doesn’t know how the magic works, he just knows that when he points the stick, shakes his arm in the right way, and yells really hard, he can make fire." Or, as some guy on the net put it (sorry, don’t remember who, though I think it was on Eric Noah’s message board, "My family was always amazed at my ability to climb walls, and I never thought it was strange that I was always eating spiders...."

 

[frankthedm]

"Sorcerers develop rudimentary powers at puberty. Thier first spells are incomplete, spontaneous, uncontrolled and sometimes dangerous"

If you WANT your fireballs, lightning bolts and ice storms like that, then go ahead and don't bother with the components.

 

[welby]

If it bothers you that much, give them Eschew Material as a bonus feat at first level.

As a player, this feat allows you to play that kind of Sorcerer you have in mind, but I guess there are also some others, so they just don't all get it.

Bye
Thanee

Why give it for free? Simply require all sorcs to take it. Kinda like a built in prereq.