Sorcerers and spell components. What were they thinking!

[jasper]

Except for when the sorcerer is captured, surprised, or otherwise in seperated from that pouch. Its the logic of the rule that's bothering me. A Sorcerer should not require components to continue to make up for its lack of Versitility to help make it on par with Wizards.

And what happens when mr silly sorcerer wants to cast a spell that the component normally cost $5k and the party never had more that $1k all at once.
I started enforce components back in first when someone cast a spell that require a $10k component. He never had that much money to buy it.
I give a sorcerer with no components as long as he can't cast any spell with over 100gp focus, component.

 

[diaglo]

i require components of all my spellcasters.

divine or arcane.

verbal, somatic, and/or material.

there is no logic to magic. it is magic.

 

[Urbannen]

Xavim is right - it doesn't make a lick of sense. Sorcerers can cast a spell without ever having learned it from anywhere. It's like one day waking up and being able to speak Lithuanian.

The component of each arcane spell are specific. A verbal component is a set of specific words. A somatic component is a set of specific gestures. My question is "How does the sorcerer learn the verbal and somatic components without training?" A fireball cast by a sorcerer and a wizard is the same spell, using the same words and gestures. We know this from the rules for Spellcraft and scroll use. A sorcerer just wakes up one day with the knowledge imprinted in his head?

Having to say specific words, use specific gestures, and provide specific material components is not "directing raw power at will." A psion directs raw power at will. A sorcerer casts spells.

My solution is that sorcerers have to go through magical training just like wizards do. They may go through the same training as wizards, even. However, when they learn a spell, that does not mean they can then prepare it from a spellbook. Instead they add it to their repertoire. This solution is supported by the class's actual mechanics.

If you want a character with spell-like abilities, I suggest playing a psion but calling it magic instead of psionics.

 

[shilsen]

And what happens when mr silly sorcerer wants to cast a spell that the component normally cost $5k and the party never had more that $1k all at once.
I started enforce components back in first when someone cast a spell that require a $10k component. He never had that much money to buy it.
I give a sorcerer with no components as long as he can't cast any spell with over 100gp focus, component.

I deal with that by charging XP. Sorcerors in my campaign do not use spell components, and if they cast a spell with an expensive component, they lose 1 XP per 25 gp of the material component.

 

[Henry]

Also, where would the the sorcerer learn about the components? ...For me it doesn't make logical sense and has always bothered me.

Think in terms of the TV Show "John Doe." (Canceled, darn it.) He knew how to do certain things, yet he didn't know HOW he knew. He could in theory perform brain surgery - meaning he also knew what tools he needed if he ever had to do so.

So, looking at a sorcerer as possessing a "magical memory," He knows magic so well no because he knows by instinct how to complete the two or three last second words and gestures and materials that make a spell go off. Note that by description, he's still actually casting spells; they aren't described as spell-like abilities.

 

[Psion]

I deal with that by charging XP. Sorcerors in my campaign do not use spell components, and if they cast a spell with an expensive component, they lose 1 XP per 25 gp of the material component.

That's awful slight considering the conversion rate is 1 xp:5 gp. (The 1/25 in magic items represents a 1/5 surcharge at a 1:5 ratio, NOT a 1:25 ratio. NPC spellcasting costs and NPC equipment cost rules back this up.)

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

Just wondering how many of you guys that use material components in your campeigns make sorcerers have to use them? That rule has always bothered me. It says a sorcerer doesn't study for their spells and that they simply have "raw power that they direct at will" What's the point in having the ability to call upon any of your spells at any time in any situation if you have to worry about whether or not you have components?

Also, where would the the sorcerer learn about the components? Where they walking in a cave one day and just happened to slip in some bat dung resulting in the immolation of the area from the resulting fireball? Or true strike. How many people would come across a small amulet that's shaped like an archery target? For me it doesn't make logical sense and has always bothered me.

We're still relatively low level (6th & 7th level) sorcerers in our campaign. We do not use components but that is really only because it hasn't come up. We do use scrolls. I'm sure if we wanted to cast spells that required components, we'd be able to, within reason. For instance, we just killed a Chimera in our last session and both sorcerers (me being one of them) took various parts of the Chimera , because we know they might be useful later on as Spell components. In fact, we were killing the Chimera to get a vile of it's blood for an NPC who wanted it as a spell component.

I think that if a sorcerer can call upon any of his or her spells at will, that means, some of the spells may require having the right elements present in order for it to work. That makes sense to me. It's hard to think of it in logical, real life terms...IRL, an example would be a master artist who was just born with the ability to paint or sketch. I'm not talking about the people who go to school and learn art, I'm talking about people with the inborn artistic ability. They have it in them to paint a masterpiece but they certainly can't do it without the right canvas, brushes, paints etc.

Think of it like that. The sorcerer is born with the ability to cast these spells. They don't have to study to learn it, although, you might say if they hear another sorcerer talking about it, they might search within themsleves and try to find out if they can do it (a good way to explain why the sorcerer suddenly has more "inborn" spells as they move up in level). But they might find that they sometimes need the proper components for it to work.

They might simply know what they need for the spell, or they might have learned about it in a magic items shop, or from a fellow sorcerer.

 

[WayneLigon]

The reason they need the components is because the spells needs that component to work. Material componants generally follow one of the standard Western 'rules of magic'; in this case, either Sympathy or Contagion.

Think of it like driving. The wizard has to go to driving school. He takes tests, memorizes signs, learns the proper gestures, etc. Finally he can drive down the road in relative safety. The sorcerer just gets in the car and hopes for the best. He'll never be able to do lots of the cool tricks the wizard knows, but he still is using the same conveyance to get around and he has to use the brakes (verbal), the steering wheel (somantic) and the clutch (materials) in exactly the same way. It's a lot harder for him, but he didn't have to put in all that boring training time.

 

[hong]

I deal with it IMC by dumping wizards, and making sorcs the "learned spellcasting" class. Exact same mechanics, different backstory.

 

[ST]

Since someone may have missed this, remember Eschew Materials isn't "Ignore all material component requirements"; you still need the expensive ones for spells that are balanced to require them. (I forget the cutoff point but it's probably at a couple of hundred GP.)

One of the interesting things about sorcerors is they really aren't explained that well. The secret of how they function could differ widely from campaign to campaign, or even on a character-to-character basis.