Sorcerers and their spells

[jonas889]

This is a question that has recently arisen in the gaming group I play with and I don't know if this was stated before but I'm going to ask it anyway:

At level up, do sorcerers just choose the new spells they get when leveling and have to keep all the old spells they know as well, or can they switch out old spells for new ones?

For example my sorcerer at 3rd level has 5 0-level spells and 3 1st-level spells. He has Daze, Light, Flare, Read Magic, and Detect Magic for 0 and Mage Armor, Magic Missile and Color Spray for 1st.
At 4th level he gets another 0-level and a 2nd level spell. He now knows 6-3-1 spells known. He takes Mending for 0 and Web for 2nd. He never uses Color Spray. Can he switch out Color Spray for Shocking Grasp?

I ask this because Neverwinter Knights is supposed to be completely 3rd Edition rules and in the game sorcerers can switch out spells at level ups. The book doesn't say you can but it doesn't say you can't. I could really use your guys help.

 

[shilsen]

By the book, a sorceror only chooses the new spells and retains the old ones. If he chose Sleep as a first level spell known at Sor1, then he's still got it at Sor20. Some people do use a house rule allowing sorcerors to swap out known spells at later levels.

 

[gfunk]

Sorcerers must keep the spells they choose, there are no core rules exceptions. This is why you must choose between long-term and short-term benefits with each spell choice.

There is precedence however, for using the Wish spell for swapping out old spells. Also, Bruce Cordell has published some psi feats that allow psions to upgrade spell chains (e.g. Astral Construct).

 

[Spatzimaus]

I ask this because Neverwinter Knights is supposed to be completely 3rd Edition rules

No. NWN is supposed to be CLOSE to 3rd Edition, but it was never supposed to be exact.
They changed a LOT of things for playability purposes, to get around the fact that in most cases you won't have an active DM deciding everything and don't have time for much strategy. Lumping all EWP Feats into one, combining most of the "social" skills into a couple combat-related ones, changing what many of the spells do, not including a lot of Feats...
They changed all items to use one pricing scheme, while by the DMG armor and weapons use a Market Price Bonus system while Wondrous items use something completely different. They added some hard-coded pricing limits, that are totally different than what the book has. They changed how timing works, so that you can take more or less unlimited AoOs and Cleaves. And so on.

They stayed reasonably close to 3E, sure, and it makes for a fun game, but it's not 3E. Sorcerers in NWN can swap out spells when they level; Sorcerers in 3E can't swap with anything short of a Wish. Personally, IMC I house-rule that you can swap to an upgrade, but that's about it.

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

is it actually stated in the pHB (couldnt find it) that a sorceror may not change his known spells?

 

[shilsen]

is it actually stated in the pHB (couldnt find it) that a sorceror may not change his known spells?

No, it is not. And it does not need to be, IMO. If they could change known spells, it would need to be mentioned, since that would be an additional aspect of the character. But since they don't have the ability, there's no mention of it.

The PHB does say that at "each level, the sorceror gains one or more new spells" (pg.50). That's all they get. Tome and Blood has a few more explicit references to this, and mentions that if you're a sorceror, then your "choices are with you for the rest of your career" (pg.6).

 

[jonas889]

Thanks guys. This has been a great help.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Re: Re: Sorcerers and their spells

They stayed reasonably close to 3E, sure, and it makes for a fun game, but it's not 3E.

Still, it's the closest we had so far with CRPG's: Pool of Radiance 2 used some early playtest version of the rules (and left some classes and races out of the game - and the rest wasn't that great, anyway) and Icewind Dale's 2.5e at best.

But I hear they're working on Temple of Elemental Evil - a round-based CRPG using Grayhawk and the full D&D ruleset.

 

[Henry]

Incidentally, it still won't use the FULL ruleset, because you cannot swim and ride horses, as well as several other things.

Also note, in NWN, that summoned creatures do not work as they do in 3E, and potions cannot be used on other PC's - yet other differences between the two. However, the Hard Core Ruleset available online would make this and several other changes to make it more in line with the original.

But in answer to the original - no, Sorcerers do not change out spells at all, short of DM fiat.