Sorceror with druid spell list - feedbacl wanted

[Huw]

Hello.

I'm thinking of a sorceror variation. The idea is that sorcery is the original magic, and wizards have taken a subsection of it and expanded on it. Here is a list of the differences

• Sorcerors' magic is handed down orally, in the form of legends and mystic teachings. Sorcerors do not have any dragon (or other supernatural blood)
• Sorcery has no link to writing. Sorcery cannot be written on scrolls, and no sorcery spells exist with written components (such as symbol)
• Sorcery spells are immutable. Sorcerors cannot use metamagic
• Sorcerors can choose any spell from the druid list (except as detailed below), and spells from all wizard schools except evocation, illusion and conjuration(summoning)
• Sorcery is arcane, and sorcerors cannot use hallow, unhallow or atonement. Flame strike only does fire damage
• Sorcerors lose bluff, but add diplomacy, heal, intimidate, handle animal and knowledge (nature)

The idea is that the wider range of spells compensates for the loss of metamagic. Many druid spells are less useful without animal companions and wild shape, although these sorcerors have summon nature's ally instead of summon monster. Another option I'm toying with is increasing the skill points to four.

Is this balanced?

 

[The Human Target]

Generally I think its very weak. The loss of those wizards schools is a huge blow, as is the loss of scrolls. Can a sorcerer still cast spells from wands and staffs? All those extra skills are nice, but the lack of skill points makes them semi useless. (in my game all classes have a base of 4 per level.) Can the sorcerer cast spells in armor? Can they heal?

 

[Sadrik]

Add a bunch of class skills, give them d6 HD and 6 skill points per level. I think that that would be a good jumping off point.

I also think that you should drop the sorcerer/wizard spells and keep them just on the druid spell list. This is not for balance reasons but just for simplicity and dealing with redundancy.

It is essentially a spontaneous druid without the d8 HD, wild shape, two good saves, the class skills of a druid and the ability to get meta magic. Make them stronger. A skill monkey slant added in might balance them nicely.

Sadrik

 

[smootrk]

I like the idea in general... but I think I would give them their very own spell list rather than just saying Druid & some of the Wiz/Sor list. That way you can evaluate each spell for flavor (ie... no written spells therefore no glyphs, symbols, etc.)
Just gives you a little more control.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

 

[Thanee]

Seems almost fair to me.

No scrolls is not a huge hit IMHO. The added skills are a minor advantage. These even out.

The added druid spell list is a huge bonus, because healing magic and some other good stuff becomes available, though healing magic is surely the biggest bonus.

The loss of evocation magic (only partially covered in the druid list) and illusion magic especially is the biggest downside. The conjuration (summoning) spells are mostly replaced by druid spells.

I think the loss of metamagic should be reconsidered, because it is too much. I would remove that part and then it would seem pretty reasonable from a balance perspective. While metamagic as a concept seems more wizardly, one can surely think of a different flavor to make it fit. After all, the divine casters can use it, too, and there is not much wizardly about clerics and druids, either.

Maybe also give them 4+Int skill points per level and Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level might also fit well. These are no huge benefits, but useful and nice to have.

You should also remove the arcane version of Scry and other "double entries" like that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Huw]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll go for increased skill points and possibly HD.

One other possibility is bonus feats, non meta-magic but still magical, such as spell pentration, augment summoning or improved familiar.

 

[Storyteller01]

Check GR's 'Witch'. Basically the same, with a few new spells added in the mix (they do keep some wizard spells, such as charm). Same BaB and HP and improved skill points. I think the best thing they did was expand on the various skills. What they lose in spells they gain in skill options.

 

[Nifft]

I don't like it, and I'll tell you why. Many Druid class features are disguised as spells. The Druid is balanced on the idea that it can -- with a day's preparation -- use one or more of these class features.

(Note that Animal Companion used to be a class feature hidden in a spell -- animal friendship -- in 3.0e.)

Some class features hidden in (and balanced by) spellcasting mechanics:
- Hallow
- Atonement
- Lesser Restoration
- Awaken
- Plant Growth

Many Druid spells are highly situational. Rusting grasp is great if you know you're going to be facing an Iron Golem or a Wall of Iron. Otherwise, it's kinda "meh".

So, a Druid loves having Scribe Scroll. It's a great Feat for Druids & Clerics.

Personally, I'd suggest using Arcana Evolved / Unearthed spellcasting mechanics allowing daily choice from the whole Druid spell list, with some sort of "bonus spells" (to allow a few Arcane spells on to each individual Sorcdruid's spell list). Yes, like the ill-liked Spirit Shaman. Hey, it's a good mechanic, no need to use anything else from that class.

-- N

 

[Stormborn]

Familiar or Animal Companion? I would go with Animal Companion, possibly as a ranger. I second increase HD to d6 and bump up skill points and a free Eschew Materials. Are the spells Divine or Arcane? If no Arcane Spell Failure then thats a good compensation for loss of spells.