Storm Raven
First Post
shilsen said:
A point that says a lot about medieval painting, but absolutely nothing about painting and artistic human representation during the era being discussed.
Spartan Training
A point that says a lot about medieval painting, but absolutely nothing about painting and artistic human representation during the era being discussed.
krichaiushii
First Post
Perhaps just make a few more skills class skills for Spartans.
Survival or Wilderness Lore (depending on edition) - due to constant foraging.
Knowledge (Strategy and Tactics) - considering their reputation as fierce fighters, it seems appropriate.
Perform (singing) - from my limited reading, singing and retellling epics were the only worthwhile artforms of the Spartans.
Concentration - necessary to conduct oneself in a mass formation, while death is all around you
I like the idea of forcing a physical-abilities related feat as the human feat. Endurance, Run, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, and perhaps even Skill Focus: Concentration (or other appropriate skill).
The book "Gates of Fire" by Pressfield provides some useful insights into Spartan training, as well as being an excellent bit of historical fiction.
Survival or Wilderness Lore (depending on edition) - due to constant foraging.
Knowledge (Strategy and Tactics) - considering their reputation as fierce fighters, it seems appropriate.
Perform (singing) - from my limited reading, singing and retellling epics were the only worthwhile artforms of the Spartans.
Concentration - necessary to conduct oneself in a mass formation, while death is all around you
I like the idea of forcing a physical-abilities related feat as the human feat. Endurance, Run, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, and perhaps even Skill Focus: Concentration (or other appropriate skill).
The book "Gates of Fire" by Pressfield provides some useful insights into Spartan training, as well as being an excellent bit of historical fiction.
Ruined
Explorer
krichaiushii said:
One of the players in my campaign is a huge fan of the 'Gates of Fire' novel. His character (Gerad in my SH below) is a jannisary warrior, much like the Spartan style. He took Run, Endurance, Improved Unarmed Strike, and a few others. Also has the Military Training feat out of SSS' Players Guide to Fighters & Barbarians.
The character also took Leadership, so he now has a small group of soldiers to fight with him in spear and shield formation.
Ysgarran
Registered User
http://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/background/8c_p1.html
http://www.pbs.org/search/search_results.html?q=Spartans&neighborhood=none&btnG.x=0&btnG.y=0
PBS had done a special about sparta a couple of months ago, a quick search didn't find it but it did find some other interesting stuff.
http://www.pbs.org/search/search_results.html?q=Spartans&neighborhood=none&btnG.x=0&btnG.y=0
PBS had done a special about sparta a couple of months ago, a quick search didn't find it but it did find some other interesting stuff.
hong said:
You know, the really sad part is that, due to timing constraints and our growing budget wackiness, I only end up seeing movies when my wife and I go out to have an afternoon with my mom. A recent game-night conversation with my buddies went like this:Them: Man, Kill Bill was just awesome. Pat, have you seen that?
Me: Er, no.
Them: Aw, that's too bad, we thought you'd love that hyperviolent fight melange. (Um, except that they probably would never use the word melange. Nobody except me ever uses that word, I think.) So, what, you didn't go see it 'cause you were all pumped from seeing Matrix Reloaded?
Me: Er, no.
Them: Dude! You haven't seen Matrix Reloaded? How did you understand Matrix Revolutions, then?
Me: Er...
Them: What about that crime movie with the Rock?
Me: Er...
Them: What about SWAT?
Me: Er...
Them: Pat, what was the last movie you saw, man?
Me: Well, Under the Tuscan Sun is the cinematically beautiful story of this woman who recovers from a painful divorce by buying a villa in... what? Quit lookin' at me funny!
Them: Dude, we don't know you anymore.
- - - - -
But meanwhile, back on a topic not far away...
The portrayal of children does relate to the Sparta deal, because I made the point awhile back that the fox & kid story wasn't that big a deal by their standards, because they were thinking of the kid as a new recruit, not as a young and innocent child. Showing evidence that children were thought of as little adults, not as children, in periods less civilized than our own, supports that hypothesis. It's not ironclad evidence by any stretch, but it does at least help make me sound somewhat less full of poo.
(And yeah, I can imagine that sometimes we're dealing with people of low status, but sometimes the painting is entitled "The Baron of Gablahgablah with his son", which sort of makes it less likely that said little-person is a servant or man of low status, since he's painted as a carbon copy of the adult standing next to him, wearing smaller versions of the same clothing, standing in the same position.)
Wilphe
Adventurer
I'd make them all Fighters.
That's the whole point of their society after all.
You keep a large number of helots to provide the agricultural surplus that enables you to do nothing else except fight and train to fight, and your dependent periokoi to do the crafting and trade you don't have time to learn how to do.
The training would make all of them have starting levels as fighters, though they might multiclass later. The stealth/survival aspect of their training I might reflect with a level of ranger, esp under 3.5. Rogue I would avoid as it doesn't really reflect their style and if anyone needs a full BAB it is these guys.
Spell support would be from multi-classed clerics (they were rather religious (read: Superstitious) and perhaps some sorcerors. Wizardry would depend on how you integrated the training into the society, if you have Spartiate wizards they'd still need to go through the agoge so they'd be a level or two behind in development. They would be very focused on support in battle.
Alternatively, you could say that would weaken the focus of their society and that they get arcane support in the same way they got cavalry and support troops - through periokoi and allies.
How many levels they have depends on how the rest of the world is set up. Spartan influence was based on the fact that they had fewer fighters compared to their competitors, but the ones they had were all full time warriors. Of course historical hoplite warfare doesn't really require skill, just bravery and endurance. It's not suprising that that is what their training fostered.
Their alignment is a fairly strong lawful, probably tending to neutrality. Good if you want to play up the stoic, self-sacrificing aspects of their culture, evil if you want to play up the sheer random violence and terrorism that underlayed their power.
That's the whole point of their society after all.
You keep a large number of helots to provide the agricultural surplus that enables you to do nothing else except fight and train to fight, and your dependent periokoi to do the crafting and trade you don't have time to learn how to do.
The training would make all of them have starting levels as fighters, though they might multiclass later. The stealth/survival aspect of their training I might reflect with a level of ranger, esp under 3.5. Rogue I would avoid as it doesn't really reflect their style and if anyone needs a full BAB it is these guys.
Spell support would be from multi-classed clerics (they were rather religious (read: Superstitious) and perhaps some sorcerors. Wizardry would depend on how you integrated the training into the society, if you have Spartiate wizards they'd still need to go through the agoge so they'd be a level or two behind in development. They would be very focused on support in battle.
Alternatively, you could say that would weaken the focus of their society and that they get arcane support in the same way they got cavalry and support troops - through periokoi and allies.
How many levels they have depends on how the rest of the world is set up. Spartan influence was based on the fact that they had fewer fighters compared to their competitors, but the ones they had were all full time warriors. Of course historical hoplite warfare doesn't really require skill, just bravery and endurance. It's not suprising that that is what their training fostered.
Their alignment is a fairly strong lawful, probably tending to neutrality. Good if you want to play up the stoic, self-sacrificing aspects of their culture, evil if you want to play up the sheer random violence and terrorism that underlayed their power.
