Speaking of White Wolf.. discussion of the end of the World of Darkness

[Mouseferatu]

That's kind of what they did with Exalted and the newer Dark Ages games. There was one core book with the rules (Exalted, DA: Vampire), and separate books groups/types (The Lunars, The Dragon-blooded; DA: Werewolf, DA: Mage), that didn't have the the system rules in them, but included and specific information on whatever that books about. So you'll need the core book in addition to the book for whatever subtype you want to play.

Ari, can you tell us if that's how the new WoD will be as well or will we be looking at a bunch of stand alone books again?

Can't say, I'm afraid. I'm under so many NDAs that I think I'm actually up to owing them my 8th-born child, and 12 souls in addition to my own, if I spill anything. Only reason I could even say what I said above is that it's already been revealed.

Soon as I'm allowed to say more, I promise you folks will be among the first to know.

 

[Mouseferatu]

So, what are the books bringing us to and end and when are they out?

This, fortunately, is already public knowledge, so I can speak on it.

The following is cut-and-paste from the WW site. The most important piece of info in there is, of course, the name of the author of the Gehenna novel.

The Time of Judgment begins on January 14th, 2004 with the release of the first game supplement in the apocalyptic series. The entire rollout (including lead-in products) is:

Late 2003

Lair of the Hidden™ (ISBN 1-58846-242-0) — a supplement for Vampire: The Masquerade detailing a cult of Inconnu who hide secrets of Gehenna. (August 2003)

The Red Sign™ (ISBN 1-58846-245-5) — a supplement for Vampire: The Masquerade and Mage: The Ascension in which mages dare to lift the Curse of Caine. (November 2003)

Days of Fire™ (ISBN 1-58846-762-7) — a fiction chapbook for Demon: The Fallen in which Lucifer’s prophecies are revealed. (December 2003)

January 2004

Gehenna™ (ISBN 1-58846-246-3) — a 224-page hardcover game supplement detailing the end of Vampire: The Masquerade.

Vampire: Gehenna--The Final Night™ by Ari Marmell (ISBN 1-58846-855-0) — the first novel in the Time of Judgment Trilogy tells the story of the end of Vampire: The Masquerade.

February 2004

The Apocalypse™ (ISBN 1-58846-323-0) — a 224-page hardcover game supplement detailing the end of Werewolf: The Apocalypse.

Werewolf: The Final Battle™ by Bill Bridges (ISBN 1-58846-856-9) — the second novel in the Time of Judgment Trilogy tells the story of the end of Werewolf: The Apocalypse.

March 2004

The Ascension™ (ISBN 1-58846-417-2) — a 224-page hardcover game supplement detailing the end of Mage: The Ascension.

Mage: Judgment Day by Bruce Baugh (ISBN 1-58846-857-7) — the last novel in the Time of Judgment Trilogy tells the story of the end of Mage: The Ascension.

World of Darkness: Time of Judgment™ (ISBN 1-58846-475-X) — a 224-page hardcover game supplement detailing the end of Demon: The Fallen, Hunter: The Reckoning, Mummy: The Resurrection, Kindred of the East and Changeling: The Dreaming.

Laws of Judgment (ISBN 1-58846-521-7) — a trade-format game supplement for Mind’s Eye Theatre.

May 2004

Vampire: The Eternal Struggle -- Gehenna (ISBN 1-58846-626-4) — a new booster set for Vampire: The Eternal Struggle featuring cards based on the Time of Judgment.

An all-new World of Darkness launches in August of 2004.

 

[reapersaurus]

But I came across this link while researching the new Bloodlines CRPG and I found it to be incredibly genuine and ballsy. Here is a game publisher that is knowingly ending an entire (and from what I gather, very large) product line to maintain a promised storyline and their integrity as storytellers. I find that fascinating as I've never seen anything similar in the industry.

Getting back to the original thought/opinion... Yes, I feel/felt the same way.

I think it's incredibly ballsy, and I don't recall it being done before.
Umbran, your cynicism is certainly warranted, but I prefer to point out the originality and uncommon risks taken here.
It's not common to have a creative entity push the re-set button on their enteire line, when they aren't failing badly.

This is not a desperation move - this is something that IS based on creative reasons, I believe, and I applaud them on it.
They built a world and storyline, and it pointed in this direction for a decade - and they're following thru.
That is so rare as to be noteworthy, and respected in my eyes.

 

[Umbran]

Umbran, your cynicism is certainly warranted, but I prefer to point out the originality and uncommon risks taken here.

I don't know if there's really that much risk involved. Each and every game they've put out has had serious mechanical reworkings and setting updates in the past, and it doesn't seem to have hurt sales. They've seen the success of 3e and 3.5e. What's to risk? Hordes of gamers will go out and buy it through sheer curiosity. Hordes of MET players will go for the new larp rules.

They're at risk if the new rules truly and honestly stink, I suppose. But they have decent designers there, so I doubt that is likely. They'll have at least a passable game there.

This is not a desperation move

Not all moves designed to generate sales are "desperation" moves. They don't ahve to be desperate to find and pursue a tactic that will earn more money then they currently pull in.

This is not to say that there won't be plenty of creative talent behind the new games. Just that I expect the core motive behind the move is simple economics. Given similar quality, new games sell better than old games.

 

[Green Knight]

I'll certainly be interested in the new game once it comes out. I've bought the occasional White Wolf book here and there, but I never truly became a collector. What can I say? The seemingly endless shelves full of White Wolf product scared me away. Plus there were some elements of their setting which I just didn't like. The whole backdrop for Werewolf I found especially annoying. Though I REALLY liked Wraith. That was a blast to play.

Anyone know what rules set they're gonna use? Are they gonna stick with their D10 system? Personally I hope not. I've never been particularly fond of it. Nor have I been fond of the constant rules changes, with books coming out with new rules to apply to the old rules, rules to replace those new rules, etc. Personally I'm hoping for D20, but I'm biased (Preferably something more akin to Mutants & Masterminds, with a Damage Save, rather than Hit Points).

 

[Crothian]

It'll be d10. If the drastically switch the system or even go to d20, they will lose most of the hardcore fans. Whitewolf already does d20 stuff, and its very successful. THis isn't about money, the d20 side of the company I imagine is doing well enough to allow them to do this. Most if not all the orginal WOD writers and creators have moved one, so its time for them to embrace new ideas by changing everything that needs changing.

 

[Green Knight]

It'll be d10. If the drastically switch the system or even go to d20, they will lose most of the hardcore fans. Whitewolf already does d20 stuff, and its very successful. THis isn't about money, the d20 side of the company I imagine is doing well enough to allow them to do this. Most if not all the orginal WOD writers and creators have moved one, so its time for them to embrace new ideas by changing everything that needs changing.

Oh well. Still looking forward to the new version of the WoD. Just hope the system is cleaned up, and they keep the rules in the main rulebook, and don't start throwing out add-ons and corrections, or anything of the like. The less books you need for the rules, the better.

 

[frankthedm]

Just like every one of us, the setting was born to die. The writing was on the wall, scribed with the same ink that wrote the playtest documents.

I am kinda glad they will give the setting an ending, UNLIKE so many game-settings and TV shows that go on and on until they fade to obscurity.

And Even when the setting officially ends, you can play the official game as a period peice [1990's] to say nothing of the home games where the storyteller decides to use thier vision of the WOD.

Then again, my favorite horror game has this unpleasant habit of sometimes causing the end of the game world when an adventure goes wrong. And Call of Cthulhu been round since the 80's.

It would be nice to see the WW system unified or even become its own open gaming system.

Please don't get me wrong, i like the WW system, but they made a promise, and now they are making good on it.

Myself, I'm of the Wyrm, so this means I win!

What i am expecting in the next incarnation are less plot-tied rules:

No more 'masquerade friendly' vampire licking a claw or bite wound he made causes said wound to close.

no more world spanning masquerade.

No more cain

No more clans/ tribes determining powers.

No more Delirium from werewolves so humans can do more against the furballs. Most should still run, but should be governed by normal rules applying to all 'weird things'.

Maybe no more wyrm }=(

 

[Kesh]

What are the current versions of all those WoD games anyway? I own some old copies of Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Vamp: Dark Ages, and Wraith. Mage I liked, Vampire and Werewolf were interesting but never seemed to be fun to play or run, Wraith seemed unplayable.

Each of the three 'core' games has a Revised edition now. So, V:tM Revised, W:tA Revised and M:tA Revised.

Wraith... uh... well... the best I can tell is that it mutated into this new game called Orpheus.

Changeling is dead. Gone.

There are now complete rulebooks for VA, WA and MA, rather than just supplements for Werewolf using the VA rules (for example).

Oh, and if you liked Mage, be ready for some changes. The Revised edition has advanced the metaplot... and the Ascension war is over. The Technocracy won, though it's a hollow victory. Now, the focus is on trying to convert those few newly Awakened individuals to one side or the other, as the end times approach.

 

[Umbran]

Changeling is dead. Gone.

Hm. You might want to tell White Wolf about the game's demise. For some odd reason, even thought he game is gone, they still havethe core rulebook for sale, and still intend to include information for it among the other Apocalypse products. Yes, there are lots of sourcebooks out of print, but don't count a game out of action when the company that makes it still sells it, hm?

Oh, and if you liked Mage, be ready for some changes. The Revised edition has advanced the metaplot... and the Ascension war is over.

Or at least aht's what some folks want you to believe. When in doubt, don't believe Technocratic press releases, and the testimony of depressed magi You might want to see what's in the Apocalypse supplement for Mage before you decide on whether or not it was over.