Special Conversion Thread: Aboleths

[Shade]

I'll let the others weigh in with their opinions, but taking over 1 party member a round (not assuming mind blank or similar protections) doesn't compare with possibly stunning the entire party in a single round (ulitharid, mind worm, etc.)

It's a nice ability, I'll give you that, but not enough for the gigantic CR jump, IMHO.

 

[bykov]

Yeah, good catch on the missing abilities.

I'm not seeing the higher CR, though. They stygian aboleth in Lords of Madness is CR 15, and it has 24 Hit Dice! Neothelids, at CR 15, also appear much deadlier. The CR 17 mind worm far outclasses them.

They are definitely superior to the CR 12 ulitharids, though. I could maybe see stretching them to CR 14, but no higher.

Stygian aboleths have no SLAs. Noble aboleths are drowning in them.

[EDIT #1] - You are right, the Stygian is more powerful than the Noble, considerably more so. It is a beast in combat, and defensively stronger (DR 10/magic). SLA-wise it is weaker. Mentally, it is significantly weaker. It is also Gargantuan compared to the Noble's Huge size. Enslavement slightly better with the Stygian, just due to HD. Severely underrated at a CR 15. It would demolish a party at that level. [End Edit #1]

Neolithids are severly underrated (especially with that nonsensical 24 NA).

[EDIT #2] - Ooooph. Neothelid is uber-nasty. If as a GM you had your players face this as a level 15 party, they should have the right to beat you with the DMG. If they succeeded in defeating this thing, your license to run a game should be revoked. This thing should be able to eat Stygian Aboleths for breakfast. The point I am trying to make is that WotC has a terrible knack of assigning crappy CR's. If we use these as a baseline for our CRs, then our creatures will be just as poorly valued. [End Edit #2]

[Edit #3] The one thing I am noticing is that the Noble has far superior psionics and mental scores than any of the 3, making them effective at higher levels. [End Edit #3]

I am not familiar with the Mind Worm. [Found it - Dragon #337]

[Edit #4] Nice creature, a little strange, but nice. Falls in the same realm as the other two, meatier physically, but weaker mentally. In looking it over, it is actually a bit weaker than the Neothelid, and as the other two...under CRed [End Edit #4]

Now granted, this is my opinion based on my experience statting these suckers up for encounters, but, in the end, I cannot concede to using what I perceive as poorly contrived numbers as bookends in evaluating the CR of a monster.

However, in the end, it is my opinion.

Bykov.

 

[freyar]

CRs are always tricky, and I sadly haven't run any games that high level. Can we stick with 14 or so, though? One thing we have to assume for assigning CRs is no mooks around -- CR is a single critter assessment. Does that keep it down enough to make CR 14 palatable, bykov?

 

[bykov]

CRs are always tricky, and I sadly haven't run any games that high level. Can we stick with 14 or so, though? One thing we have to assume for assigning CRs is no mooks around -- CR is a single critter assessment. Does that keep it down enough to make CR 14 palatable, bykov?

CR 17 was a mook-free assessment. (Also, peanut-free )

My concern is this. We are diverging in terms of CR. With the greater aboleth we differed by 1-2 CR, the noble we are differing (after brow-beating it higher ) by 3-4 CR. I am pretty confident that we will be farther off with the Ruler and the Grand.

I am adamant about my stances, but I will defer to the group concensus. Just don't expect me to not express my rationale zealotously (I should get a nickel for that word....a dime if I spelled it correctly )

Bykov.

 

[Shade]

In that case, we'll stick with the CR 14, note your zealotous opposition, and reserve the right for you to do an "I told you so" dance should our CR assignment be called into question at any time in the future.

Updated.

Are we ready for the ruler aboleth?

 

[freyar]

Guess so!

 

[bykov]

mmmm...gargantuan aboleth...my player's pcs are rolling over in their yet to be dug graves.

Bykov.

 

[bykov]

So Ruler Aboleth stats...

STR 38, DEX 12, CON 26, INT 29, WIS 27, CHA 27

I think that covers the progression we have been following.

Bykov.

 

[Shade]

And here's the original text...

RULER ABOLETH
FREQUENCY: Extremely rare
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 1
MOVE: 3"//21"
HIT DICE: 20-22
% IN LAIR: 100%
TREASURE TYPE: H, R, S, T, V
NO. OF ATTACKS: 4
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 5-20 (x 4)
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Supra-genius
ALIGNMENT: Lawful evil
SIZE: L
PSIONIC ABILITY: 340
Attack/Defense Modes: All/all
LEVEL/X.P. VALUE: 20 HD: X/15,700 + 30per hit point; 21-22 HD: X/19,200 + 35per hit point

These huge, bloated monstrosities are the largest and most intelligent of all aboleth (aside from the grand aboleth). Each rules an aboleth city and is never encountered anywhere else, except when it must mate (and must therefore travel to another city using psionic means). Its telepathic link with its subjects allows it to be constantly aware of everything going on in its realm. Rulers are, in most other respects, similar to common and greater aboleth. They possess enslavement abilities equal to those of greater aboleth and can generate veil spells at will. Rulers can generate slime in a 5’ radius, and the mere sight of one causes fear in all beings of less than 5th level or five hit dice. They have extremely potent psionics and may use the disciplines of body equilibrium, cell adjustment, clairvoyance, ESP, astral projection, body control, and dimension door at a level of mastery equal to their hit dice.

 

[freyar]

These seem like they should still get astral caravan, etc. And they seem to have frightful presence, cool.