Special Conversion Thread: Aboleths

[bykov]

Well, not having the original monsters all available right now, I can't absolutely say, but we already decided not to treat this specifically as a kind of advancement (ie, age categories). So let's take this on a case-by-case basis, I think.

Although, bykov, I am really keen on aboleths with age categories if the opportunity presents itself in the future.

I am trying to keep it mind. I get a bit carried away because 1) they scream to be linked and 2) I find so often so many items that don;t make sense I want to "fix" them.

I am trying to operate within the framework of the stipulations as I am made aware of them. However, this point I believe is within the framework and is a point of conjecture as to whether the aboleth is more inteligent or charismatic. Granted we are converting from a system, which if we are lucky gives us a handful of stats in the write-ups. Aboleth, aside from the savant in the night below, only gives us intelligence.

Utilizing that information that we are given and the write-ups associated, aboleths are not that charismatic. Now we have the SRD, which sets us at 15/17/17. That is the baseline. It by no means dictates that Charisma will always be higher than Intelligence, especially when considering the aboleth mage and in turn psionics.

Previous write-ups stress inteliigence and set the aboleths as "cruel, emotionless, and logical"...implying low charisma.

There is no right or wrong, and I do not mean to dredge this discussion down. If I am not adding to the topic, let me know. I will stop participating.

I stumbled upon this forum as I was looking for info to rework the aboleth. It was strange coincidence. I know I have benifited in the short time here as just the Knowledgeable ability triggered three different iterations of it in my head. One of which will end up in my personnal write-up.

I understand the purpose of the thread, and I am not trying to derail. Please let me know if I am detering you all from gainful collaboration.

Bykov.

 

[freyar]

Please do keep contributing, we're all about this kind of discussion! And I think your participation will make the conversions better.

I actually do agree about the Intelligence being important, and I place a high value on being faithful to the original monsters. I just don't have access to them until Shade posts them, and I'd like to assign Int based on the original text. Does that fit your progression?

As for Cha, I guess I don't always think of it as how other characters relate; it is also a strength of will. You know, following the analogy Int=Dex, Wis=Con, Cha=Str. With all the spell-like and psi-like abilities, Cha is going to be important for most of the aboleths, I'm guessing. But that's not to say that Int won't overtake it in some cases.

Anyway, please do keep participating!

 

[Shade]

bykov - Definitely stick around. Your contributions have already improved these guys greatly. I wouldn't have thought of including Knowledgeable (which is a perfect fit for aboleths) had you not entered the discussion.

In thinking a bit more about this, I can live with a slightly higher Int than Cha (as long as Cha remains as high or higher than it is now), and I think the mental stats could use a boost.

Int scores of various aboleths and comparable creatures:
2e Aboleth: High (13-14)
Greater Aboleth: Exceptional (15-16) compare to base red dragon
Noble Aboleth: Genius (17-18) compare to base gold dragon, mind flayer
Ruler Aboleth: Supra-genius (19-20) compare to lammasu, titan
Grand Aboleth: Godlike (21+) compare to titan, elder orb beholder, Asmodeus

Hive Mother beholder: Int 21, Wis 17, Cha 25
Titan: Int 21, Wis 28, Cha 24
Lammasu: Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 14
Golden Protector Lammasu: Int 18, Wis 20, Cha 18
Mind Flayer: Int 19, Wis 17, Cha 17
Asmodeus: Int 28, Wis 32, Cha 30/Int 30, Wis 34, Cha 30
Great Wyrm Gold Dragon: Int 32, Wis 33, Cha 32
Great Wyrm Red Dragon: Int 26, Wis 27, Cha 26

So maybe...
Greater Aboleth: Int 21, Wis 19, Cha 19
Noble Aboleth: Int 25, Wis 23, Cha 23
Ruler Aboleth: Int 29, Wis 27, Cha 27
Grand Aboleth: Int 33, Wis 31, Cha 31

Does that work for everyone?

 

[freyar]

Sounds great to me!

 

[demiurge1138]

That progression of intelligence works for me.

 

[bykov]

As for Cha, I guess I don't always think of it as how other characters relate; it is also a strength of will. You know, following the analogy Int=Dex, Wis=Con, Cha=Str. With all the spell-like and psi-like abilities, Cha is going to be important for most of the aboleths, I'm guessing. But that's not to say that Int won't overtake it in some cases.

Never really thought of it in respect to the physical stats before. Spent the last day plus thinking about this. Came to the conclusion that positive aspects do not a high Charisma make. An aboleth does indeed have a powerful personality and is able to exercise its will onto others quite readily. Just because they are cruel and inhuman does not make this any less the truth.

*yay* epiphanies.

With that being said, I still believe the aboleth intelligence is greater than Charisma, however the fact they are able to so impress their will onto others does make the solid case that their Charisma does not trail far behind in the end.

21/19/19 works for me and the Greater Aboleth.

Bykov.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

The Int boost gives 'em 2 more skills at 15 ranks. Knowledge?

 

[freyar]

We could do something like one more Knowledge plus Swim, Diplomacy plus Sense Motive, Bluff plus Intimidate, etc. Possibly make sure the psionic one gets another Knowledge.

 

[Shade]

I kinda like Bluff and Intimidate, since they are in charge of the slaves.

 

[demiurge1138]

Agreed to Bluff and Intimidate.