Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off giants and their kin

[freyar]

Let's add it! Did we have rules for severing limbs in the troll mutate? The gray troll has

Thanks to its lanky, emaciated form, a gray trolls limbs are easily severed (on a natural attack roll of 18 to 20) by edged weapons. Severed limbs will fight for up to five rounds after being cut off. If the battle ends before five rounds elapse, the limbs will rejoin the body. If not, the severed limb crumbles to dust.

which would suggest severing an arm on a critical.

Sunlight, like fire, is deadly to a gray troll. A gray troll will never willingly enter sunlight, but, if forced, will desperately try to flee and find a dark shelter, attacking anything in its way. While in sunlight, a gray troll fights as if blinded (-4 penalty on attacks, saves, and AC), and is "burned" by the sunlight for five hit points of damage (which cannot be regenerated) every round. If brought to zero hit points while in sunlight, a gray trolls body shrivels and crumbles into black and gray ashes, forever dead. Light other than sunlight has no effect on gray trolls.

Like a vampire's vulnerability to sunlight or just a direct conversion (5 hp per round lethal damage)?

 

[Big Mac]

Updated.

Anything left?

It looks good, but this sentence looks wrong: "Stone trolls are not bothered sunlight like many other trolls."

This could be taken to mean "Stone trolls, like many other trolls, are not bothered by sunlight." I know that is not what you mean, but I think the sentence needs a tweak.

I would go for: "Stone trolls are not bothered sunlight like many other trolls are."

Or: "Stone trolls are not bothered by sunlight unlike many other trolls."

Or reverse the two bits to get: "Unlike many other trolls, stone trolls are not bothered by sunlight."

I think the third version would be the one that would work best for non-native speakers.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, let's go for the last version.

 

[Big Mac]

Turn this into actual poison that behaves more like others, or make it a unique Ex ability?

I don't like the part of the poison that kills people. I would rather have a poison that puts people into a coma. If they don't wake up they would eventually starve to death anyway.

The other ability seems to be "inherited" from an undead ability. Is there an undead poison that knocks people out?

Given the Gray Troll's knockout bite attack, do you think it should bite people, retreat and then stalk them for 20 minutes to see if the knockout poison kicks in? A monster that runs in and hit's a PC's cohort with a KO bite and then tries to steal the unconsious victim later on could be quite fun.

Modifying the vampire's ability....

Gaseous Form (Su): Three times per week, as a full-round action, a gray troll can assume gaseous form as the spell (caster level 5th), but it can remain gaseous for six rounds and has a fly speed of 60 feet with perfect maneuverability.

Don't forget that the original couldn't get more that 5ft from the ground. Taking that restriction out could allow them to fly over castle walls or across the Grand Canyon and so on.

Immunity to acid, cold, and electricity?

Yes, and vulnerability to fire as I mentioned above?

I agree with freyar. The vulnerability to fire seems to be similar to the vulnerability to light.

Are you going to keep its "attack people with fire first" strategy? I wonder if the creature should attempt any fire-fighting tactics. It has a low intellegence, so I suppose it wouldn't walk around with a bucket of water and a blanket to throw on a fire.

Severed Limb Attack (Ex): If one of a troll mutate's arms is severed (such as via the impeded fortification ability, above), the arm attacks the troll mutate's enemies with its usual attack bonus and damage, although it takes penalties for attacking while prone. The severed arm acts on the troll mutate's initiative and remains animate for 2d4 rounds if it is not reattached to the troll mutate.

I'm not a big fan of severed arms that fight by themselves, but this does the job fairly well. The end would need to change to: "...remains animate for 2d4 rounds and then disintegrates if it is not reattached..."

 

[freyar]

I don't like the part of the poison that kills people. I would rather have a poison that puts people into a coma. If they don't wake up they would eventually starve to death anyway.

The other ability seems to be "inherited" from an undead ability. Is there an undead poison that knocks people out?

Given the Gray Troll's knockout bite attack, do you think it should bite people, retreat and then stalk them for 20 minutes to see if the knockout poison kicks in? A monster that runs in and hit's a PC's cohort with a KO bite and then tries to steal the unconsious victim later on could be quite fun.

I'm inclined to make this a regular poison (though the 20 minute stalking idea is quite amusing). If so, I'd maybe start with something like

Poison - Injury, Fort DC X negates, initial damage nauseated for 2d4 rounds, secondary damage unconscious for 1d4 hours. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Thoughts?

Don't forget that the original couldn't get more that 5ft from the ground. Taking that restriction out could allow them to fly over castle walls or across the Grand Canyon and so on.

I think the 6 round limit will keep it pretty close to the ground most of the time.

I agree with freyar. The vulnerability to fire seems to be similar to the vulnerability to light.

Are you going to keep its "attack people with fire first" strategy? I wonder if the creature should attempt any fire-fighting tactics. It has a low intellegence, so I suppose it wouldn't walk around with a bucket of water and a blanket to throw on a fire.

I think that strategy is reasonable for these things, and the lack of fire-fighting tools is also probably about right for a troll.

How did you want to handle light vulnerability? I'm leaning toward something similar to immersing a vampire in water.

I'm not a big fan of severed arms that fight by themselves, but this does the job fairly well. The end would need to change to: "...remains animate for 2d4 rounds and then disintegrates if it is not reattached..."

Hehe, I think the remaining animate takes care of that. Afterwards, it just dies.

 

[Shade]

I fixed the stone troll with sentence #3...nice catch!

I'll look over the other discussion shortly.

 

[Shade]

I'm inclined to make this a regular poison (though the 20 minute stalking idea is quite amusing). If so, I'd maybe start with something like

Poison - Injury, Fort DC X negates, initial damage nauseated for 2d4 rounds, secondary damage unconscious for 1d4 hours. The save DC is Constitution-based.

I like it.

I think the 6 round limit will keep it pretty close to the ground most of the time.

Agreed. Besides, it could just stay within 5 feet of the wall or canyon sides to cross the examples, right?

How did you want to handle light vulnerability? I'm leaning toward something similar to immersing a vampire in water.

How's this? I combined the drow's light blindness with the vampire's water immersion and through in some of the original flavor text...

Light Sensitivity (Ex): Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds a gray troll for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, it is dazzled as long as it remains in the affected area. A gray troll exposed to natural sunlight robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round. A gray troll cannot regenerate damage caused by sunlight, and upon reaching 0 hit points it crumbles into black and gray ashes.

Hehe, I think the remaining animate takes care of that. Afterwards, it just dies.

Indeed.

 

[freyar]

I like the light sensitivity, though maybe it should be light vulnerability or something since it actually takes damage.

On the homebrews page, there's still a "troll mutate" in the severed limb attack.

Any other SAs for this, or should we move on to skills and feats?

 

[Shade]

Light vulnerability it is, and the leftover "mutate" removed.

Updated.

The only other special ability we might need after re-reading the original text is some sort of "healed by negative energy/harmed by positive energy" bit, if we want to go that route.

Otherwise, here are the feats and skills:

Skills: 11
Trolls split ranks between Listen and Spot.

Feats: 3
Trolls have Alertness, Iron Will, Track.

Since these are essentially still trolls, we may not need to change the feats and skills.

 

[Big Mac]

I'm inclined to make this a regular poison (though the 20 minute stalking idea is quite amusing). If so, I'd maybe start with something like

Poison - Injury, Fort DC X negates, initial damage nauseated for 2d4 rounds, secondary damage unconscious for 1d4 hours. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Thoughts?

Instant poison is a change, but it is a change for the better. Monster abilities should mostly happen during the combat (or in front of the players).

I think the 6 round limit will keep it pretty close to the ground most of the time.

I must have missed that limit. If this creature lives underground vertical flight won't come into play too much. And cutting out the height limit means less things for the GM to remember.

Hehe, I think the remaining animate takes care of that. Afterwards, it just dies.

The crumbling to dust thing is a bit weird as that evokes some vampire films I've seen. (See also my reply to Shade below.)

How's this? I combined the drow's light blindness with the vampire's water immersion and through in some of the original flavor text...

Light Sensitivity (Ex): Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds a gray troll for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, it is dazzled as long as it remains in the affected area. A gray troll exposed to natural sunlight robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round. A gray troll cannot regenerate damage caused by sunlight, and upon reaching 0 hit points it crumbles into black and gray ashes.

It does seem very fast, but I really like this.

One point though. If the gray troll crumbles and turns to dust in sunlight, should they also crumble to dust if they die normally? And should severed limbs crumble to dust?

The only other special ability we might need after re-reading the original text is some sort of "healed by negative energy/harmed by positive energy" bit, if we want to go that route.

These creatures are already bordering on being undead. Would pushing it further in that direction make for a more interesting creature? (How many undead trolls are there?)

Otherwise, here are the feats and skills:

Skills: 11
Trolls split ranks between Listen and Spot.

Feats: 3
Trolls have Alertness, Iron Will, Track.

Since these are essentially still trolls, we may not need to change the feats and skills.

I think that everything should be as per a standard troll, unless there is a reason for it to learn additional skills or feats. This has to be a regular troll that got transformed.

Considering what this is, I'm tempted to suggest gray troll should be a template that can be applied to any troll.