Special Conversion Thread: Supernatural Familiars

[Cleon]

I think Cleon's stat block is ridiculous boosterism. I can see bumping a hare's speed up to 40 feet, but a Con of 15? A Str approaching that of the average halfling? Sorry, but I refuse it.

As I keep arguing (see, chimpanzees), real-world animals are a lot more impressive than D&D gives them credit for. But boosting one animal without uptweaking all of the rest leads to imbalances and silliness.

That's all right demiurge, I'm not going to twist your arm and make you use those stats.

I think it's pretty good for something I threw together in a few minutes, it certainly looks more accurate than the Dragon 280 version.

I was aiming to stat up an unusually large and vigorous hare, i.e. a 9-12 pound Arctic Hare, since I thought that would make the most suitable hare-shape for a Small-sized supernatural familiar like a Tabur. For a more ordinary sized hare (~5 lbs) I'd drop the Con and Str by 2.

Since 9-12 lbs is halfway between Small and Tiny, I gave it a strength partway between. As for the halfling comparison, an average halfling weighs 30 pounds, so it's only a couple of times heavier than a large hare, and said hare should be proportionally stronger. The Constitution 15 was just to match a dog - a hare can usually outrun a dog, both by speed and stamina, so probably has a comparable Constitution. The SRD Dog is Small-sized and Con 15, and advancing between Tiny and Small does not give a Con change, ergo a hare should have a Con in that area.

As for the speed, a real life hare is as fast as a good horse (at least 30 mph, possibly up to 40-45 mph), and a fast horse in the SRD has 60 ft speed and the Run feat. I was strongly tempted to give hares a 50 ft. speed, the same as a Wolf, since a particularly fast dog (like a greyhound, which probably has speed of 50 or even 60 ft, with Run instead of Track as a bonus feat) has a good to excellent chance of catching a hare. Oh what the heck, I'll do it.

I do think I overrated the bite attack in my first draft, I'll cut it to 1d3 damage. I'm also tempted to add a couple of slam or unarmed strike attacks, so we can have "boxing hares".

So, putting that together I'd get a "Hares, mark 2" of:

Hare: CR 1/6; Tiny Animal; HD ½d8+1; hp 3; Init +4 (Dex); Spd 50 ft.; AC 16 (+2 size, +4 Dex); Atk bite –1 melee (1d3-3) or 2 unarmed strikes –1 melee (1d2-3 nonlethal); SQ scent; Face 2 1/2 ft. by 2 1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.; SV Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +1; Str 5, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7. Skills: Hide +12, Jump +9, Listen +8, Spot +4, Feats: Alertness, Run (B).

Hare, Big: CR 1/4; Tiny Animal; HD ½d8+2; hp 4; Init +4 (Dex); Spd 50 ft.; AC 16 (+2 size, +4 Dex); Atk bite +0 melee (1d3-2) or 2 unarmed strikes +0 melee (1d2-2 nonlethal); SQ scent; Face 2 1/2 ft. by 2 1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.; SV Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +1; Str 7, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7. Skills: Hide +12, Jump +10, Listen +8, Spot +4, Feats: Alertness, Run (B).

+4 racial bonus to Listen checks.
​

That looks pretty nice to me.

Besides, my feeling is that a lot of the problem comes from the 3E game system not handling particularly big or little creatures very well, but that's an argument for another day...

 

[Shade]

I'd prefer to lower the Con and give it Endurance as a bonus feat to account for outrunning predators.

 

[freyar]

That will probably help keep it more in line with some other animals. Like, say, rats.

 

[Cleon]

I'd prefer to lower the Con and give it Endurance as a bonus feat to account for outrunning predators.

I thought about doing that but (a) I didn't want to give it more bonus feats than regular feats, (b) that would give it a lot of other traits (like resistance to suffocation) that I don't think Hares possess, and (c) I wanted them to have a running endurance the same as a dog (+2 from Con 15), and even with a rat's Con 10 they'd have a better running endurance save (+4 from feat). Maybe a racial bonus to Constitution checks to continue running would be a solution?

Anyway, we're getting sidetracked here, we could argue for days over a natural hare's stats (and I'll probably stick stubbornly to my Con 15 version).

We only need stats for the Tabur's alternative form.

If we let said familiar keep its size (Tiny) and physical ability scores (Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10) in hare form, then we only need decide on its speed (50 ft. or 60 ft.?), natural attack (1d3 bite?) and possibly natural armour (+4 NA like its true form, no natural armour like a hare probably has, or +2 NA as the average of the two).

 

[Shade]

We only need stats for the Tabur's alternative form.

Good point!

If we let said familiar keep its size (Tiny) and physical ability scores (Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10) in hare form, then we only need decide on its speed (50 ft. or 60 ft.?), natural attack (1d3 bite?) and possibly natural armour (+4 NA like its true form, no natural armour like a hare probably has, or +2 NA as the average of the two).

Let's go 50 ft., 1d3, and no natural armor.

 

[freyar]

That's a sensible compromise!

 

[Shade]

Updated.

Now that we've moved past the hare-raising horror, let's get back to the other stuff upthread...

Lomendur can swim at their walking or flying rate, whichever is faster. On land or in the air, they can use the same weapons that galadur do, but lomendur strike only once per round if they use a sword, and they gain no bonuses to hit with the bow. A lomendur’s dexterity is 15, and its charisma is 13 with respect to other creature types.

Int is listed as Average (which is 8-10).

Quasit: Str 8, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Imp: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
All three Galadur: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 16

So maybe Str 10, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 13? (Higher Wis for being monklike).

NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-3/1-3 or by weapon type

Though it can use weapons in its unpolymorphed form, a tabur prefers to strike with its hands, for 1-3 points of damage per hand. The damage figure is this high because the tabur has an instinctive knowledge of anatomy, like that of a monk. With its hand attack, it can stun or kill an opponent of size S as a first-level monk (1% chance to kill vs. AC 7, up to 4% vs. AC 10).

Slam attacks or unarmed strikes like a monk? Stunning Fist as one of its feats?

The tabi have two powers that resemble cleric spells. First, they can hold person once a day, as a 2nd-level cleric, surpassing the actual spell because they can affect any number of eligible persons or creatures within range. Second, the tabur can feign death once a day for up to 14 turns.

Specialized Su ability resembling hold person?

Feign death is not core. Here's the Tome & Blood writeup:

You put the recipient into a deathlike condition. At your option, this can be a cataleptic state that is impossible to distinguish from death, or the subject can appear to be in a coma or deep sleep. Although able to smell, hear, and know what is going on, the subject is blind and has no sense of touch or pain. The subject does not need to eat, drink or breathe.

While the spell is in effect, the subject is immune to subdual damage, and any normal or ability damage inflicted is reduced by half. In addition, the subject is immune to mind-affecting attacks, paralysis, poison, disease, and energy drain. The effects of any poison or disease already affecting the subject when the spell takes effect are halted until the spell ends. If the subject has any negative levels when the spell takes effect, the saving throw to remove is delayed until the spell ends.

 

[freyar]

I kind of feel like unarmed strikes for these, with IUS as a bonus feat.

Is such a powerful hold person a little unbalancing for these? Well, we can always bump CR and Improved Familiar eligibility level a bit I guess.

How much of feign death do we want to retain? I definitely like the appearing to be dead bit, but some of the immunities seem a bit much. What level spell is this?

 

[Cleon]

I kind of feel like unarmed strikes for these, with IUS as a bonus feat.

Is such a powerful hold person a little unbalancing for these? Well, we can always bump CR and Improved Familiar eligibility level a bit I guess.

Its basically mass hold person, which as a 7th level spell is way too potent for its CR. Maybe we should just make it like regular hold person except it affects up to 3 people, like it did in 1st edition AD&D, or have it affect a 10 foot radius and have its effect automatically broken if a target takes any damage?

EDIT: Oh yes, I like Shade's stat proposals of Str 10, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 13.

 

[freyar]

I missed the ability scores, too! Yes, those look good.

I think Cleon's suggestion for the hold is about right. I'm not sure if it needs the damage bit, though, since the targets can save every round.