Specialist Wizards: Where's da Oomph?

[Rystil Arden]

And the "Image" line of spells are pound for pound some of the best, most scalable and useful spells in the game...if you have a good imagination. I'd take Illusions over, for example, Necromancy, any day (unless I was playing a Necromancer).

The Image spells are definitely useful. And if you allow that ridiculous PrC from Races of Stone in combination with Heighten Spell and Earth Spell (and Signature Spell: Silent Image for good measure), Silent Image becomes "Cast any Evocation or Conjuration spell of your choice spontanteously of any level you could normal cast, but it might be less than 100% real for some levels"

 

[irdeggman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by irdeggman
"generic specialist."

Yes it is an oxymoron. But it does serve to accentuate the template-like system of handling specialist wizards in the core rules.

What I was referring to is that they are the same per the PHB.

They all have the same abilities (same pluses to spellcraft, lose 2 schools and gain an extra spell, etc.)

A specialist wizard can prepare one additional spell of her specialty school per spell level each day. She also gains a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school.

The wizard must choose whether to specialize and, if she does so, choose her specialty at 1st level. At this time, she must also give up two other schools of magic (unless she chooses to specialize in divination; see below), which become her prohibited schools.
A wizard can never give up divination to fulfill this requirement.

Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands. She may not change either her specialization or her prohibited schools later.

The eight schools of arcane magic are abjuration, conjuration, divination, enchantment, evocation, illusion, necromancy, and transmutation.

 

[Krelios]

I don't want a debate as to whether or not specialist wizards are too weak or too strong. This thread starter assumes they are underpowered probably once they hit mid levels and most certainly at high levels.

Unearthed Arcana describes alternate class features for specialist wizards, and I have to admit I do sort of like them. But you have to give up things to get them, and with a few exceptions they're not really worth it in terms of effectiveness. Character customization? Flavor? Thematics? Oh yeah! Great stuff.

What other products have possible solutions? Or do you yourself have some ideas? Let's hear 'em!

Well, I'd have to disagree that the UA versions are underpowered. I think the core rules versions are slightly underpowered, but it depends on how many encounters per day you have. What I really take issue with is the bolded text above. If you don't care about roleplaying at all, why aren't you just playing the D&D minis game or something like Warhammer 40k?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I can call myself Tim The Great And Powerful Enchanter ... without actually specializing in Enchantment. I can take Spell Focus (Enchantment) and cast an inordinate amount of Enchantment spells and be, all around, very very Enchantery.

But if specializing in Enchantment gets me a net loss to character ability, why do that? I can be just as enchantery without it. Specialization makes me only SLIGHTLY more powerful in the thing I supposedly want, while making me MUCH weaker everywhere else.

Specialization is one of those things I've never seen in 3.0 that was common in 2nd Ed. Now days, if you want more spells per day, you can go Sorc and get an absolute butt load without losing item use out of two schools.

--fje

 

[Glacialis]

Well, I'd have to disagree that the UA versions are underpowered. I think the core rules versions are slightly underpowered, but it depends on how many encounters per day you have. What I really take issue with is the bolded text above. If you don't care about roleplaying at all, why aren't you just playing the D&D minis game or something like Warhammer 40k?

You take issue that I consider the UA variants to be full of thematic and character customization elements, and that they are great but not what I'm looking for in terms of more oomph for specialists? You should read my statement a bit more carefully. Right now, I believe the only reason to play a specialist is BECAUSE of roleplaying. Even the UA alternatives are underpowered, because they do not scale well to higher levels.

 

[KarinsDad]

You take issue that I consider the UA variants to be full of thematic and character customization elements, and that they are great but not what I'm looking for in terms of more oomph for specialists? You should read my statement a bit more carefully. Right now, I believe the only reason to play a specialist is BECAUSE of roleplaying.

Core rules specialists are not underpowered at any level. They still have a greater number of higher level spells which equates to more power, not less power.

They are less versatile at high level, but that is not the same as underpowered. There is a major difference.

People playing a core rules specialist might forget all of the times at low level that having an extra spell or two was the difference between surviving and not surviving.

I find it a bit disingenuous that a player of a Specialist would find him underpowered at high level. This disregards that the character was more powerful at lower levels and that is what balance is all about. In this case, low level survival and specific school focus (i.e. more spells and specifically more highest level spells) at all levels, versus versatility.

That has nothing to do with power. That has to do with balance. It's all fun and games at the lower levels when the character can kick butt, but at higher levels, the lack of choice starts to hurt. Oh well. Having the cake and eating it too is not always possible.

 

[Glacialis]

Okay, that was my fault for dragging the thread off-topic.

Can we please not do that again? I want solutions, not debate.

 

[Bad Paper]

I find specialists' extra spell per level to be good for multiclassers. I have a rogue 2 / evoker 7, and I never miss those pesky enchantments or illusions that he gave up.

 

[Zog]

The easiest solution is to simply require only one forbidden school.

I'm playing a Diviner right now in the Shackled City, just hit level three. (Whoo-Hoo, I've got power now!) I took Illusion as my forbidden school. So no invis, no blur and no Mirror Image. *shrug* I can live with it. But two schools.... *shudder* I couldn't deal. To many missing spells.

To discuss the extent of 'underpoweredness' is neccessary to discuss possible solutions. One answer has been zero, so no solution needed.

My opinion is that one school was worth it for the extra spell at each level. All that extra information gathering ability - without cutting into my combat ability or buffing or misc. spells, will be very nice. And an extra true strike is always useful....

This simple solution becomes better and better the more the different schools are balanced. When there was only 1 spell for a given school at a given level, and 10 for a different school, the schools were not equal. They are better now, and hopefully will continue to get better.

 

[KarinsDad]

Can we please not do that again? I want solutions, not debate.

Solution. Take a Diviner Specialist, then use the 3 Forgotten Realms feats to get back the prohibited school.

This equates to trading 3 feats for 9 extra spells from the Diviner School. Typically, you get 1 spell slot for 1 feat (e.g. Complete Arcane), but you get to choose any spell to put into the spell slot. Here, you get 9 spells for 3 feats, but you are limited to Diviner spells.

Or, are you looking for a solution for a specific Specialist? If so, you might want to post more details about him.