doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
They don't really relate to tactics, outside of the fact they relate to the whole system, and there is a tactical element in 4e, just like every Edition.
Speculation about "the feelz" of D&D 4th Edition
- Thread starter cavalier973
- Start date
They don't really relate to tactics, outside of the fact they relate to the whole system, and there is a tactical element in 4e, just like every Edition.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
hmmm, does 1e gaming the DM count?
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I think that counts more as strategy than tactics? Idk man.
I just always laugh at the idea of 4e as "DnD: Tactics". Nah, it's just dnd. You can play tactical, you can not, you can do all the things you do in any Edition, the game just runs more reliably and smoothly. Whether you're doing social stuff, combat, exploration, whatever.
cavalier973
Hero
As a minor action, Silverleaf douses his cigar in the goblin shaman's massive head wound.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Sure, OTOH I could go hammer dwarf and pump up my CS by +WIS, wield a mordenkrad and become stupidly good at punishing the crap out of people (as an example that would want to start with 18 WIS, and 16 CON as an example). Clearly you WANT to be able to hit, and your primary attacks are the most relevant and important, but there's plenty of things you can lard on there. Of course we can go on and on with endless build variations that work on different stats. I think we both agree, 20 STR starting out is nothing like universally optimum as was claimed by S'mon.
Now, I'd say there are definitely builds that work best with a 20 prime, a lot of wizard builds for instance, though maybe not the best ones (to my way of thinking). Rogues can certainly go with 20 DEX too, though again its not always near the best option.
Now, I'd say there are definitely builds that work best with a 20 prime, a lot of wizard builds for instance, though maybe not the best ones (to my way of thinking). Rogues can certainly go with 20 DEX too, though again its not always near the best option.
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
Well, it works more reliably...for heavy tactical combat, but it is hard to avoid that.. Other than that, eh, any edition is about the same?
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I once had a 4e GM who forced my maul-wielding Dwarf Barbarian to start with STR 16. +5 to hit at 1st level and I couldn't hit a damn thing... I have never ever regretted maxing out my attack stat; I've never seen feat access be an issue. With the Dragonborn Warlord I've been playing (+5 STR 20, +2 maul, +1 expertise) it really sucks when my Encounter or Daily power misses, I want to avoid that. Not having extra points for tertiary stats is a very small price to pay.
I admit my +11 Slayer build (+12 on a charge!) is a bit hyper focused on hitting, especially as he can use human heroic effort to turn a 1-4 miss into a hit too. I wanted a pregen that would be enjoyable and reliable for a starting player.
You have a PC who is sacrificing a strong secondary stat(Cha presumably) for a +1 to hit with a +2 proficiency weapon when Rapier is a +3/1d8 weapon that lets you still use a Light Shield and gains a bonus to damage if you have CA. And Cunning Stalker is an easy feat for a Warlord to use and boosts to-hit. It shouldn't be hard to get +4 total to defenses & +1 Init in exchange for a small nick off your damage with 1Ws. That slowly goes away as you go into Paragon/Epic. And because you've got a higher Charisma, your friends will easily benefit more that you lose from taking advantage of your bonuses.
Not sure where you're planning to MC, but again multiclassing feats are some of the best in the game. You unfortunately are a Warlord, so Resourceful Leader is out, but both Monk(free MBA 1/day via +1 Rain of Hammers Ki Focus and a little damage if you kill something while adjacent to something else+some free additional damage+control) and Fighter via Battle Awareness for free MBA are interesting options.
My dragonborn is very happy with his cha 16 thank you very much
I'm not planning to spend a lot of time on feats. When I play a Fighter I multiclass Warlord but doubt I'll multiplies this time. My guy is already awesome!
Tony Vargas
Legend
It does. Balanced systems are like that. 4e also put forth a system to broadly cover non-combat challenges beyond a pass/fail check, in a less-imbalanced way involving the whole party. Prior to that (and 5e has almost completely re-wound it), non-combat was largely the province of one or two characters making a check or few, or just pushing magic resource buttons - combat was the primary pillar in which the whole party could be engaged.
And, yes, that's another way in which da feelz changed. The game simply working more reliably, across the board.
Other than all the differences among them, every system is the same once you start ignoring it and running freestyle. The worse the system, the faster you're likely to get there. That's the whole 90s bad-rules-make-good-games Storyteller conceit. There's no good-rules-make-bad-games corollary though. ;P
The important thing to remember is whether a game is workable or utterly broken in the technical sense of it's mechanical design, it's presentation or subject matter or the attitudes of it's publisher or the GM you played it with running off the rails and doing his own thing without regard to said system or first impressions or even completely 'irrational' personal preference can mean you hate or love it or anything in-between.
That's just part of being human, and we all have every right to be that.
