Speed in combat and magic

[Saeviomagy]

welcome to life.
they foiled your plan. You have 6 seconds game time to react. In the real world, your friends probably give you a little more time. But in the end, as a GM, I've got every right to give you a time limit and stick it to you. That's realistic. Wizards fumble and stutter in a fight, especially when they're on the front line. And especially when they're trying to do complicated stuff.

Janx

Well, probably the simplest one is "the monster moves and the spell becomes a very unwise choice" - AOE spells when the creature is in melee, targeted spells when the monster moves out of sight, that sort of thing.

The next situation that has happened is when a spell has been interrupted, and the next spell was to take advantage of it.

Oh, and note - I'm talking about quite quick decisions here, even when plans change. But it still remains that choosing a spell that's appropriate isn't nearly as fast as saying "I hit it with my sword".

 

[Janx]

absolutely. No one's disagreeing that it sucks to have a plan foiled. But it is realistic, and that's where you can risk losing a turn, and it looks realistic.

Imagine various stories (Presto in the D&D cartoon comes to mind) where the wizard is quickly rifling through his spellbook (not taking any real actions) while the fighters are holding off the monsters, wondering when he's gonna do something useful...

I'd avoid AoE spells, unless it is a battle opening move. Once you close into melee, they are probably the wrong spell-type, unless you can lob it into the rear ranks (which might make some bad guys retreat). We're talking fireballs and lightning bolts here. They are good for "I'm first and you're not standing next to me" situations.

And if you delay your first action to be move BEFORE the monster in the next round, then you can get over the monster foiling your plan. You're not really losing any actions, other than the fighters "seem" like they are getting an extra round in. It's like this, assuming the initial order was: Fighter, Monster, Mage

Fighter attacks
Monster attacks
Mage delays action to change order to right before the monster
Fighter attacks again
Mage casts spell
Monster goes
...repeat the last 3 lines until monster is dead...

This gets you over the Monster changes everything right before your turn

Try using "enemies only" spells like Sleep that targets unfriendly people only. Nice and safe "area effect spells" There's a variety of those.

Summonings are always useful. Dire Badger of trouser shreddings always work for me...

Also, don't stand in front. That gets you attacked. Casting Defensively always works when I see it done, so you could try that, to avoid having spells foiled by an AoO.

Janx

 

[Chimera]

But it still remains that choosing a spell that's appropriate isn't nearly as fast as saying "I hit it with my sword".

I disagree. If you know your spells well enough - and you only have so many memorized - then it should be no big deal to cast a different spell. If you're having this much trouble deciding what to cast, then you either don't know your spells well enough (fixable by spending time reading up on them) or you're making things too complicated for yourself.

I used to allow players to take almost as long as they liked to decide what to do, but I got seriously tired of waiting 10 minutes for a guy to decide exactly where he wanted to place his miniature and what goblin to attack. For my next campaign, you get 15 seconds. Period. If you can't decide in that time, you do nothing. As someone above said, sometimes you don't always do the perfect move, you fidget, you stall, you stop and stare. We're trying to enact a 6 second turn here, not play chess.

Also as someone above said, don't wait for your turn to decide what to do. You've got everyone elses actions too. Use that time wisely. Waiting until it's your turn, then looking at your spell list is like watching the store cashier ring up all your stuff and tell you the total before even thinking about pulling out your checkbook. Sucks to be waiting in line behind you.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi Saeviomagy,

Ghosting the second character most likely does not help and is probably the biggest problem for you. It simply takes your focus away when you need it most.

I am currently playing a 13th level wizard who has a massive collection of spells, over 46 spells to select each day and four metamagic feats to combine with them. I have managed this by creating spell slot sheets in Excel. I just write in the spells into the rectangular slots and cross them off as I use them.

However, I have four of these sheets pre-generated to represent a few different occasions:
- A Generic Spell Selection (Mainly used for rest days and unspecified downtime)
- A Research Spell Selection (When creating items, researching spells etc.)
- An Adventuring Spell Selection (mainly mayhem, violence and a couple of utility spells)
- A Travelling Spell Selection (Similar to adventuring but with a focus on Teleports, Phantom Steed, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion etc.)

In this way, I just pick up the sheet, rub out any previous crosses and get to it. On the whole, it works excellently - you just end up knowing all your spells backwards. Trying to play a wizard otherwise was just a nightmare and slowed the game down too much - as you have found out. This system works very nicely as a DM as well.

What are your thoughts?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I disagree. If you know your spells well enough - and you only have so many memorized - then it should be no big deal to cast a different spell. If you're having this much trouble deciding what to cast, then you either don't know your spells well enough (fixable by spending time reading up on them) or you're making things too complicated for yourself.

I'm not sure I would go quite this far. When I play a spellcaster, I tend to know my spells very well. But that doesn't mean there aren't times when I'm slightly hesitant. A spellcaster doesn't just need to determine what's most effective, he also needs to judge how much of his spellcasting to expend, whether it's worth it to endanger the rogue to fireball the three guys around him, if he should toss Dispel Magic on the glittering fighter or save it in case the enemy mage has prepped Dominate Person to use on his fighter... There's a lot involved in spellcasting that makes it decidedly more complex than a fighter's role, which, as Saeviomagy stated, basically boils down to "I hit it with my sword."

That said, another suggestion is to buy/make a Wand of Magic Missile or Scorching Ray. Or both. Holster them on your belt and if you find your previous spellcasting plan foiled and no other plan comes readily to mind when it's your turn, draw a wand and fire. Then start thinking about next round.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

What's with the whole "watch out you don't hit your friends with your AoE spells"? I've played wizards for years now, and it's an endearing trait of all my wizards that they nuke the party along with the bad guys. It's a cost-benefit analysis, and who in the party is best able to undertake said analysis than the neutral-aligned wizard with the genius intelligence? Besides, the monk and the rogue have evasion, the cleric has resist elements up, and the fighter has hitpoints up the wazoo. Hit points are one of the most readily available and readily recovered resources in the game. When the party's surrounded by girallons with five attacks per round and a rend, or by undead beasties with life-leaching abilities, you want the combat over in as short a time as possible. Killing the bad guys with the collateral damage of hit point loss to your own party may well be the best strategy!

On the actual question asked, I agree with all the previous comments!

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Crass]

Dumb question, but do you play with a gridded battle mat/miniatures, or not? If so, get or make some area of effect templates - to scale 20' radius spheres, cones, etc - which you can use to help visualise what you can and cannot safely do.

Another thing, which applies whether you use a battle mat or not - never be scared to do nothing but a full move in a round of combat. You may do a little less damage for a single round, but you put yourself in a better position for the rest of that combat. And, as Lord Pendragon mentioned, have a couple of wands with your favourite spells to hand.