Spell Casting times & Weapon Speeds addition to Initiatives

[drothgery]

Given the flavor text around 3e magic, at least for traditional Vancian casters, where you spend some time in the morning "preparing" your spells, and all you do in combat is complete them, it makes perfect sense that it takes no longer to complete a 9th-level spell than a cantrip. And it's less bookkeeping.

As for weapon speeds, I've never seen a system that makes sense; there's at least as much logic behind 'longer weapon=faster' as there is in the 2e-style 'smaller weapon=faster'. So they're in the ashbin of gaming history as far as I'm concerned.

So it's a NO; I wouldn't ever play with them. There are some obscure corner-case exceptions (i.e. playing with long-standing friends or celebrities who insist on using them), but in general, I wouldn't touch them again.

 

[kenobi65]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

::awakens in a cold sweat::

It was just a nightmare, right? They're not really coming back, are they? Are they, Auntie Em?

(I found both concepts to be total PITAs, which added little to the game. Good riddance!)

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I never used them in the old rules, so I wouldn't now.
Voted no.

 

[Starglim]

I voted both Yes and No, because I think it would be a good idea to apply these considerations to 3e, but I haven't yet seen a viable way to do it.

 

[Algolei]

I voted both Yes and No, because I think it would be a good idea to apply these considerations to 3e, but I haven't yet seen a viable way to do it.

Same here. I'd really like to see some ideas on it, though.

 

[buzz]

IANAWE (I Am Not A Weapons Expert)

As for weapon speeds, I've never seen a system that makes sense; there's at least as much logic behind 'longer weapon=faster' as there is in the 2e-style 'smaller weapon=faster'. So they're in the ashbin of gaming history as far as I'm concerned.

The problematic thing is that size doesn't really seem to have anything to do with it. Some weapons are less weildly than others due to tehcnique, not size. E.g. axes and flails are slower to recover than, say, longswords, despite all being in the same size category. DO you base it on that? What about overall weight compared to the Str of the weilder?

Given the length of rounds and the abstract nature of D&D combat, these aspects are really just not worth bothering with. They don't fit.

 

[William Ronald]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

::awakens in a cold sweat::

It was just a nightmare, right? They're not really coming back, are they? Are they, Auntie Em?

(I found both concepts to be total PITAs, which added little to the game. Good riddance!)

It was just a nightmare. Mind you these rules were not as much a nightmare as the grappling or psionic rules in earlier editions.

I think that people have raised several valid objections to these rules. I would add that not only they bog down gameplay, one has to ask at what level do we want to model reality. To me, the reducto ad absurdum level of modeling reality is to determine whether or not someone hit with a fireball was inhaling or exhaling at the fraction of a second when the fireball hit. This then could be used to determine what fraction of total damage was lung damage, how much of the lungs may have been burned, and how the seared or destroyed lung tissue impacts the characters short and long term actions. (If any.) These impacts could deal with shock, movement, attack and initiative penalties, ad nauseum.


Regardless of what anyone may claim, all RPGs are abstract systems when it comes down to comba. The real world is complex, and no game can adequately model all of its complexities.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Would any of you like to see the return of either of these?

Dear God, NO!

<shudder>

I mean...just...NO! Especially weapon speeds. Casting time is merely incompatible with the 3e initiative system, but weapon speeds are (and always were) incredibly stupid.

 

[shilsen]

Dear God, NO!

<shudder>

I mean...just...NO! Especially weapon speeds. Casting time is merely incompatible with the 3e initiative system, but weapon speeds are (and always were) incredibly stupid.

Waves "What Peter Gibbons said" flag.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'd be interested to try a game with such variants, but overall I think it's a level of complexity that really isn't necessary... One may think that spell casting time could be an extra factor for balancing spells, but it could also be an extra potential mistake to unbalance them

Plus, I don't know how it would work with the current Initiative rules. Maybe if you rolled init every round?