Spell DC and LVL

[ShadowMaster]

Is there an alternative way to calculate spell DC? I think that it is not fair to have character that can have +11 at 8th lvl for will save when spell DC for an average 8thlvl sorcerer is:
LEVEL 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
SPELL DC 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Why are you comparing an average sorcerer to a maximized saves?

If the average sorcerer in your campaign has a +4 to spell DC, surely the average save isn't +11!

I could easily see a monk with a +11 to will save against Mind affecting effect by level 8. But we can't calibrate the wizard/sorcerer spell DC against the best possible saves, otherwise the poor fighter might as well go hang up his swords because he'll never have free will again!

You shouln't expect all spells to be equally effective against all opponents. Fireball just don't work very well against a rogue. Instakill spell shouldn't be cast against fighter. Not many spells are efficient against a monk.

When you select your spells, make sure that you prepare a mix of spells that requires will, reflex and fortitude save. Also take spell with no save and buffing spell to help the other PCs deal with highly magic resistant foes.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I do not understand the complaint. Saves are harder to make in 3e than previous editions if you are up against a spellcaster with half a brain.

Stop casting Lightning Bolts at Rogues. Stop casting Charm Person at the Cleric. Stop casting Blindness at the Paladin.

Where do you get +11? A good save for an 8th level character is base +6. +2 for a Cloak of Resistance. +3 for Wisdom?

Why are you casting Hold Person against a Cleric?

 

[CRGreathouse]

A typical Bbn8 has a Will save of +2 (+2 base, -1 Wis, +1 cloak).

A typical Mnk8 has a Will save of +11 (+6 base, +3 Wis, +2 cloak).

A LG halfling Brd1/Clr1/Drd1/Exp1/Mnk1/Pal1/Sor1/Wiz1 with 18 Wisdom, 20 Charisma, Iron Will, and a +5 cloak of resistance (93% of his/her baseline) has a Will save of +31, the best possible by that level AFAIK.

A Com8 with extremely poor rolls and ability damage has a Will save of -3 (+2 base, -5 Wis).

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

but a bard has to be non-lawful...

 

[IceBear]

Yup, you have to learn to mix up your spells as was pointed out before. Get to learn your opponent's weaknesses when it comes to saves, and cast those types of spells at them.

IceBear

 

[CRGreathouse]

but a bard has to be non-lawful...

The character was originally NG when he took the bard class; when he changed to LG, he couldn't advance as a bard - but retained his save bonus.

 

[Krystoff]

He could always throw in a PrC that has a +2 to will saves at the first level instead of the bard.

 

[Shin Okada]

If you play a sorcerer, choose 3 spells which have different save type. For example, Blindness/Deafness (Fort), Animate Rope (Ref), and Hold Person (Will). Then take Heighten Spell Feat. You see your opponent, and cast whichever spells that opponent have lowest save, at your maximum level. Cast L4 Blindness/Deafness against an arcane caster or rogue. Cast L4 Hold Person against a Fighter type. Cast L4 Animate Rope against a cleric.

Assume you are using Point Buy. L8 Sorcerer can have Cha 20 and may have +2 Cha item. Now your L4 spell have DC of 20. And opponent's "weak" save is somewhere around 2 (base) +0 (ability) +2 (Resistance) =4. Maybe a little bit higher. But you are very likely (75 % chance) to make him helpless with only one spell.

Against a monk? They are tough. Well ..... lets fly and cast some magic missile.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

A LG halfling Brd1/Clr1/Drd1/Exp1/Mnk1/Pal1/Sor1/Wiz1 with 18 Wisdom, 20 Charisma, and a +5 cloak of resistance (93% of his/her baseline) has a Will save of +29, the best possible by that level AFAIK.

And now we need a new feat;

Will Sponge

You can absorb mind affecting effects to protect your allies.

Prerequisite: Base will save +10, Wis 15+, Iron Will
Benefit: The PC acts like a black hole for all supernaturals powers, spells or spell like effect that requires a will save. As a free action, any will save that would be required by any number of allies within 30 feet of the PC can instead be redirected toward him. Each save must be resolved independantly in the order chosen by the PC. One failure end the chain and the original targets must resolve the will save on their own. This could mean that the PC is required to make more than one save against the same spell, spell-like effect or supernatural power if it has an area of effect or several targets.

PS:

You forgot to use the Iron will feat