spell: Feathers--unbalancing??

[fba827]

<snip>
I don't what source this spell comes from, I don't remember seeing it.

In case anyone was still wondering, it is out of Masters of the Wild (WotC).

As for whether or not it is unbalanced... I don't have my books handy, btu I do recall looking at it closely before.. It has some limitations when compared to the general application spell of polymorph self.... polymorph self allows several possible choices for transformation, feathers is limited in that aspect (only birds). Duration is shorter (I think). And I am pretty sure it requires the others to stay within close range of the caster (but again, going from memory).

So, it is basically a specialized version of polymorph self. It has limitations (fewer applications, shorter duration) but it has the advantage of being specialized (granted, it is one of the more useful specializations).

I say it's fine...

Remember, confined spaces (or tunnels/dungeons) make it more difficult to be flying around so much... but if your campaign happens to be lots of outdoor / overland movement than, yeah, its usefulness tends to be demonstrated more often than its shortcomings.

Having said all that -- even if you do decide that it is overpowered for your campaign (maybe you do always have adventures outdoors, etc.) then now would not be a good time to "limit" the spell since the players are obviously very used to it. It would most likly be seen as nerfing something that they like. I would instead recommend that you find ways to still challenge them even if they are "feathered" -- flying enemies that give chase or combat them in the air is one way.... once they have to start dispering for tactical movements, people will move out of range. not to mention the fact that the PCs are polymorphed limits possible weapon and spell use.

 

[Storminator]

I'm really not fond of this particular test for brokeness. People have spells they prefer and choose the over others, that doesn't mean it's broken. Using this definition Dispel Magic broken. If wizard keeps invisibility memorized everyday incase he needs to escape from danger does that make it broken?

If a caster always takes a spell, that doesn't mean its broken. If every caster always takes a spell...

PS

 

[Technik4]

Compairsons

Personally after reading this thread I thought the spell was fine, but whilst doing some research on spells for a new prc I kept noticing feather-similar spells that are much higher level. Compare it to:

Seeming (5th level sor/wiz)

Veil (6th level bard, sor/wiz)

Im still undecided whether its overpowerful, but if you have feathers would you bother with these other spells (which have the same theme, fooling the enemy)?

Technik

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Hmm. I think we'd better sign up Dispel Magic as a Broken Spell. And Cure X Wounds for evil clerics. Those are at least as "must have" as spells like magic missile, shield, haste, etc.

But I don't think those spells are broken. The reason that dispel magic is taken by almost every spellcaster and that almost every evil cleric has several cure X wounds spells prepared is that they are spells that enable them to deal with very common situations. Needing to get rid of magic is a common problem. Getting hurt is a common problem. And both of those problems really only have one solution: dispel magic or cure X wounds respectively. That's why they're commonly prepared spells. it doesn't make them broken.

To take the test to feats, almost every fighter takes weapon focus and weapon specialization sooner or later. (Nearly every fighter also takes power attack too). That doesn't make those feats broken. In the case of weapon specialization, it's a class feature. Almost every fighter is SUPPOSED to take it. (And if every fighter were taking it in the same weapon, it would prove the weapon broken rather than the feat). I think that's the proper perspective to look at spells or feats that "everyone" "always" takes: Are they the kind of thing that every fighter or wizard should be able to do? If all wizards should be able to shoot bolts of light from their fingertips and all wizards should be protected by invisible shields of force then magic missile and shield are not "broken." They're class features. If all druids should be able to turn them and their friends into birds then feathers isn't broken if every druid takes it, it's a class feature. What would make it "broken" would be if that class feature were ruining the game.

If a caster always takes a spell, that doesn't mean its broken. If every caster always takes a spell...

PS

 

[Saeviomagy]

Just curious to get some other opinions on this. This druid spell turns people into ordinary birds, up to one per level. it is a fourth level spell. It dosen't last long, 1 min per level I believe (I don't have my book handy). At first I didn't think it was that bad. Than my group's mage got teleport. Now a feathers spell and teleport gets the whole party any where they want.

There's a million tactics to do the exact same thing. Portable holes, polymorphs, reductions etc.

When they use it, so what? So they can get into places without magical protection. More on this below.

Also is make is real easy to get into places. Who notices a small flock of pigeons flying over the castle wall. Or humming birds flying in the garden. Opinions?

This is just part of the "magical PC's in a non-magical environment" syndrome.

If you jail the PC's, do the guards leave the wizard with his 'harmless bag of herbs', or the cleric with his holy symbol? Do prisons really have no way of coping with magically active characters? If that's the truth, then why not?

I'm a guard at a castle. I know I live in a magical world. I know that there are many types of magical creatures about, and furthermore that there are methods for turning a man into a creature. Hell, a guy who used to live down the street from me ended up being apprenticed to this mage, and can pull some of this stuff. We talk about it in the pub whenever we get together for birthdays and things.

Hang on a sec. Don't those birds usually travel in big flocks? Why are five or six of them flying into the courtyard? What're they doing going into the kings chamber through his window? Where's the duty mage! Get Ganmalf out here, I think we've got a situation. Hi Ganmalf. See any auras over near the kings chamber? Yeah, that'd be them - a few little bird sized things. Get a patrol together and call out the standby wizard - I think we've got some adventurers on our hands...

 

[Destil]

To take the test to feats, almost every fighter takes weapon focus and weapon specialization sooner or later. (Nearly every fighter also takes power attack too). [/B]

While power attack is nearly universal (so many good feat chains start with it, and later on it's a must have for charging or other places you'll only get one attack) weapon focus and spec. are about 50/50 in most of my games, and even lower for my own combat focused PCs. I find them too limiting, myself.

Feathers isn't very good for travel (if it is really 1 min/level) or combat. Remember dimention door can move quite a few people (you carry an extra 50 lbs. / level) and go around barriers, not to mention it's faster and dosn't leave you vunurable. It does fill a nice specific need quite well on the druid's spell list, though: group combat mobility. Given that, if memory serves, druids lack any form of general fly or teleport spells around the level it's useful, but hardly unbalanced. The stealth aspect is perhaps the best part, but a simple 3rd level arcane invisbility sphere is better in some ways...

 

[kigmatzomat]

Just curious to get some other opinions on this. This druid spell turns people into ordinary birds, up to one per level. it is a fourth level spell. It dosen't last long, 1 min per level I believe (I don't have my book handy).

Actually IIRC, it's 1 hour/level and the targets do not have to stay in close proximity. They can individually turn back to normal without ending the spell for the others.

It is a bit more effective than teleport at low levels at moving groups distances but it requires far more time and effort along with the exposure.

At first I didn't think it was that bad. Than my group's mage got teleport. Now a feathers spell and teleport gets the whole party any where they want. Also is make is real easy to get into places. Who notices a small flock of pigeons flying over the castle wall. Or humming birds flying in the garden. Opinions?

Welcome to the power of magic. Magical espionage is a real bear to deal with. My solution is that all "state secret" installations have a 10' thick antimagic bubble around them. A feathered party suddenly bamfs back to their normal selves when they cross it, invisible things aren't, and scrying and teleports can't get through. Thieves and the like really earn their pay when trying to get in here.

For lesser castles expect there to be layers of locked doors and tightly built private rooms. One of my favorite simple security systems is the "wall of water" door. It's just a simple waterfall that falls over the doorway into a grate but it will detect all invisible creatures (through the water trail & splashing) and blocks gaseous creatures. It can be used as a trap trigger as well, typically setting off a dispel magic, lightning or cold effect (see Otiluke's Sphere for the trapping aspect of ice) or just plain old mechanical whomping. It blocks line of sight enough that many spells can not be cast through it but with proper lighting a guard can tell if someone is on the other side.

 

[Pielorinho]

I'm pretty sure its duration is 1 hour/level.

I play a druid who's used the spell on occasion. No way would I keep it memorized on a day of dungeon dwelling -- one of the alternative to feathers is flame strike, a much more versatile spell.

But when we're travelling long distances, feathers + a bird cage + bottle of smoke (also from MotW) allows us to cover some 200 or so miles in a day.

It actually helps the campaign somewhat: we're working against an isolated enemy compound that's on a timetable for Armageddon. The nearest big city is about 250 miles away. If we didn't have the feathers+bottle of smoke trick, whenever we needed to go to the big city (e.g., to buy or sell items, train, etc.), we'd have to take a couple of weeks off of adventuring. This lets us take a couple of days to accomplish the same thing.

On a side note, I *love* the water door idea -- yoink!

Daniel

 

[Rel]

Unless I've been seriously misled, the duration is 1 hour/level. In my last campaign the Druid used this spell for party transport on a strategic level in much the way described by Pielorinho. The one time they did use it for tactical purposes, there were...problems:

The party attacked a group of "Dark Druids" who had raised an army of undead and were planning on attacking a nearby town. Using Feathers, two party members (Half Orc Fighter and Dwarven Cleric) swooped into the Dark Druid camp and attacked. That's when the leader of the Dark Druids called out the Shadows who were the centerpiece of his undead army. Over the next several rounds, the party managed to destroy the Shadows but suffered a good deal of Strength damage in the process.

A few rounds later, the "run" portion of their "hit and run" attack looked like a good idea. The Half Orc and Cleric moved to a relatively safe part of the camp and transformed back to bird form...and were immediately unable to move as they lay upon the ground at 0 Strength. With the Dark Druids starting to press in from every side, they changed back and the term "hit and hit attack" was coined. The Cleric died. The Half Orc managed to get away eventually by running through the traps (Wall of Fire and Spike Stones) put in place to keep the Druids from pursuing them once they "ran".

Turns out that the average swallow (and I'm talking about a European Swallow ) doesn't have a very high base Strength.