Spell List vs Ritual List

[Traycor]

So, in some of the early 4E info, we were told that a wizard would not have to choose between Fireball and Phantom Steed. I can only assume that Fireball will be a spell, and Phantom Steed will be a ritual.

So... what current spells (any class) do you think will make the jump to rituals?

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

-Long-range teleportation (I think this is confirmed)
-Scrying
-All kinds of summoning and conjuration
-All long-term buffs (e.g. Overland Flight)
-Any spells that are primarily out-of-combat. Knock, for example.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

double post, whoops

 

[Khaalis]

Basically any spell that does not have a direct combat application, including, as previously mentioned spells that have been "Fixed" to be removed as combat spells such as Summonings. I also think that typical spells used to overcome non-combat obstacles such as Levitate will fall into this category as well.

 

[Sitara]

-Raise dead is a ritual (this has been comfirmed.)

further more, animating the dead (skeletons) will also probably be a ritual.

 

[Lanefan]

Anything that currently has a casting time of longer than a standard action will probably jump up to become a ritual, along with some other stuff as noted above.

I really hope the speculation about summoning being too slow for combat is wrong...unless it's balanced by having the summoned critters stay around a lot longer than they do now. I mean, it's *fun* sending an army of idiots into the fray that don't have players attached!

Lanefan

 

[Lackhand]

Summoning is fun, but it just annoys me to have wizards wave a hand and poof, instant (fairly respectable) servitor!

I can see bringing big monsters out of an item, but for some reason I really need a rune circle and candles and a blood sacrifice, even at high levels, to bring in a Big Gun.

Maybe the best combination would be to have a ritual that lets you summon a beastie, with whom you bargain to travel with your group in disguise/to go incorporeal/to be stuck inside a bottle until you choose to discharge its obligation?

 

[Sitara]

I agree with lackhand.

Plus while i am a fan of summonings they are a pain in the ass due to the extra rolls and keeping track of them.

I hope summonings become a ritual that takes a long time to cast with a circle/pentagram and everything; also I prefer summoning one big powerful nastie rather than a horde of weaklings that only delay the inevitable. Seriously, the monster summoning list (summon onster I-X) was utter crap. Seriously, summon dire fiendish boar??? Yeah I bet that fits a lot of fantasy worlds out there. *roll eyes*

Summoning daemons though; now that is in line with most types of fantastical fiction from conan to mmidkemia to westeros.

 

[Dausuul]

What I wonder about rituals is what sort of limiting factors will apply to them. Material components? Action point costs? Per-day limits? Something else that we haven't heard of yet?

I'd like to see rituals cost action points, or some equivalent. I find this is a more effective limiting mechanism than material components, due to WBL inflation--a material component cost that is prohibitive at the level you first get the spell is trivial 5 or 10 levels later, but an action point is always a substantial expenditure. Moreover, it's a lot easier to slip up and hand out too much gold than it is to slip up and hand out too many action points.

 

[Lackhand]

I'd guess that they work the way rituals did in Unearthed Arcana (and I think they were reprinted in DMG II? Or am I making that up?)

They're gated on fairly ridiculous skill checks, such that if you can't pass that check on a 10, you're sad (or better yet, on a 5 -- because you have to make three or four of them). There is backlash, as I recall. These combine to make it so that they'll effectively cost action points They also certainly have material component and foci costs, so that's GP.

Ah. Incantations. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm -- same thing, I think.