Spell Selection for a Bard/Sublime Chord

[Greenfield]

How about Maw of Chaos?

Interesting suggestion. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but isn't that a really feeble spell, for 9th level? Let me explain my thinking: It's a 15 foot emanation. If they fail the Save they get Dazed. They take damage automatically, but not much. And there's nothing in the spell to keep them from simply walking out of the area. Even Dazed people can still take a 5 ft step, can't they? (Dazed gets no action, but 5 ft step is listed as "not an action" in the rules, IIRC.) Regardless of what the spell description says, the effective duration is a maximum of three rounds, the longest it could take to leave the area using 5 ft. steps. Wouldn't Tentacles do a better job of holding them?

 

[N'raac]

According to https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040720a, no 5' step is available while dazed. Given no actions can be taken, that seems reasonable to me, but no rules cite is included.

 

[Dandu]

Interesting suggestion. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but isn't that a really feeble spell, for 9th level? Let me explain my thinking: It's a 15 foot emanation. If they fail the Save they get Dazed. They take damage automatically, but not much. And there's nothing in the spell to keep them from simply walking out of the area. Even Dazed people can still take a 5 ft step, can't they? (Dazed gets no action, but 5 ft step is listed as "not an action" in the rules, IIRC.) Regardless of what the spell description says, the effective duration is a maximum of three rounds, the longest it could take to leave the area using 5 ft. steps. Wouldn't Tentacles do a better job of holding them?

1. Morbo says that Daze does not work like that.
2. Irresistible Dance them.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Some more suggestions:
Chain Contingency (Insta-Buff when you need it)
Greater Dragon Ally (Not the variety of Gate, but flavor-fun!)
Foresight (Make your DM cry)
Hindsight (What happened here?)
Reality Maelstrom (My Pet Black Hole)
Replicate Casting (Situationally useful in case the Boss uses a powerful buff or something similar)

 

[Empirate]

Interesting suggestion. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but isn't that a really feeble spell, for 9th level? Let me explain my thinking: It's a 15 foot emanation. If they fail the Save they get Dazed. They take damage automatically, but not much. And there's nothing in the spell to keep them from simply walking out of the area. Even Dazed people can still take a 5 ft step, can't they? (Dazed gets no action, but 5 ft step is listed as "not an action" in the rules, IIRC.) Regardless of what the spell description says, the effective duration is a maximum of three rounds, the longest it could take to leave the area using 5 ft. steps. Wouldn't Tentacles do a better job of holding them?

No 5' steps like others said, but even if those were possible, three rounds of dazing equals death in high level play. This is not about keeping the opposition where they are, this is about denying them actions of any kind, including purely mental stuff, supernatural abilities, words of recall, what-have-you. Moreover, nothing in the books is immune to daze effects (barring extremely few, very niche, not-likely-to-be-known-by-DMs immunities that are, in fact, available). Undead, Constructs, Oozes... the works. Just take care around demons...

Also, the damage is actually quite good. It's untyped, and it's 1d6/CL per round. That adds up quickly.

Tentacles? Targets are not unable to take actions, can make a check every round to escape, and lots of stuff is immune (or functionally immune due to high bonuses) to grapple attempts at the level we're talking about. Also, the damage is lousy. No comparison.


The reasons I'd still argue against Maw of Chaos are a) SR: Yes sucks, and b) this is a very good dual threat (blast/BC), but for a 9th level spell, likely one of only two the character will ever know, I'd excpect something more suited to telling the laws of physics to shut up, sit in a corner, and cry. You know, not just another combat tool, even if it's a very good one. Something a little more versatile, more comprehensive. Something capable of being used in near every situation where the party turns to you with that desperate, hopeful, puppydog, "And now what?!" look in their eyes.

 

[Greenfield]

Not sure why 5 foot steps are out when Dazed.

Dazed: The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.
A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.

As noted, no specific mention of 5 foot step.

Not an Action: Some activities are so minor that they are not even considered free actions. They literally don’t take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else.
No Action
Delay
5-foot step

So, per the rules, a 5 foot step isn't an action, and isn't forbidden by Daze.

We've seen cases where Sage Advice and FAQs give advice which runs 180 degrees from what the rules say. I tend to take these sources as advice, not rules.

YMMV, of course, but that's how I read the RAW.

Oh, and Irresistable Dance is single target, range Touch. Kind of ruins the image of casting it by playing the Pan Flute.

 

[Empirate]

Well, the clearest I can make it is that the infamous 5-foot step is neither a kind of action, nor is it not-an-action. Instead, it is something that can be done when you take certain actions, but not others. Looking through all the mentions of the 5-foot step in the SRD search for the term, it certainly seems like that - this is hard to pin on a single rules quote, though. The best rules quote in this regard is this one:

[h=5]Move Action[/h] A move action allows you to move your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Move Actions.


You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.

Repeated here:

[h=5]Take 5-Foot Step[/h] You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance.


You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.


You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.


You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.

Important part bolded. If you read this to specifically spell out all the circumstances in which a 5-foot step is possible, it follows that you need to take an action of some kind in order to also take a 5-foot step. Since being dazed prohibits actions of any kind (even free actions), it also prohibits the good old 5-foot-get-out-of-jail-free-step.

 

[Greenfield]

Well, the clearest I can make it is that the infamous 5-foot step is neither a kind of action, nor is it not-an-action.
...
Important part bolded. If you read this to specifically spell out all the circumstances in which a 5-foot step is possible, it follows that you need to take an action of some kind in order to also take a 5-foot step. Since being dazed prohibits actions of any kind (even free actions), it also prohibits the good old 5-foot-get-out-of-jail-free-step.

By this read, nobody can take a 5 foot step unless they also swing a sword, cast a spell, do jumping jacks or dance a jig. Does that make any sense to you?

As for the "nor is it not an action" reference, "not an action" is exactly how the SRD describes it.

 

[Empirate]

By this read, nobody can take a 5 foot step unless they also swing a sword, cast a spell, do jumping jacks or dance a jig. Does that make any sense to you?

As for the "nor is it not an action" reference, "not an action" is exactly how the SRD describes it.

Actually, yes, that makes perfect sense to me (except for the doing jumping jacks and dancing a jig part): normally, people move normally. I.e., people take a move action. In some cases, most importantly when you find yourself in a melee, you don't want to move normally, though - you just want to make a minor, well-timed, precise adjustment to your position relative to your foes. In some cases, you can do so without problem, taking advantage of your new position for a few precious seconds before the flow of combat might mix things up again. In other cases, this just doesn't combine well with what else you're doing (e.g., running down a hallway at full speed).


"Not an action" is clearly defined in the SRD:

[h=5]Not an Action[/h] Some activities are so minor that they are not even considered free actions. They literally don’t take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else.

Taking a 5-foot step is not "considered an inherent part of doing something else". Announcing your Power Attack modifier, or targeting a spell, or choosing which potion to draw from your bandoleer, are inherent parts of doing something else. 5-foot steps are neither an action nor "not an action", strange as that may sound.

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, consider the situation: You're in a melee situation, unarmed, and being guarded by an ally. You want to step out of that ally's way. Unless you "take an action", however, you can't move 5 feet without drawing an Attack of Opportunity. It's impossible to move carefully, tactically, unless you're distracted by preparing a weapon or a spell.

Does that still make sense to you? Recall that a Move action to leave a threatened square draws AoO, even if hat movement is only five feet.

As for 5 Ft Step being "not an action", as per the definition you quoted: Look a few lines lower in that same section of the SRD. 5 Ft. Step is explicitly listed as "Not an Action". And whatever your reasoning, specific trumps general.