D&D (2024) Spell slot level for Find Familiar and Find Steed for rituals, Wild Companion and Faithful Steed

[Kobold Avenger]

So there's a big question mark on which level those spells are cast as when casting those spells as a ritual, or with the respective Druid or Paladin class features.

Like are they supposed to be at the minimum level of those spells, or does the class feature allow them to be cast at the highest level the caster can cast at. And should Find Familiar as a ritual use the minimum level or it's highest (9th level Find Familiar! for just 10gp and 70 minutes of casting).

I personally don't think 9th level familiar is that big of a deal for a 17th level character.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So there's a big question mark on which level those spells are cast as when casting those spells as a ritual, or with the respective Druid or Paladin class features.

I assume the highest slot you have...

Like are they supposed to be at the minimum level of those spells, or does the class feature allow them to be cast at the highest level the caster can cast at. And should Find Familiar as a ritual use the minimum level or it's highest (9th level Find Familiar! for just 10gp and 70 minutes of casting).

I hope they clarify

I personally don't think 9th level familiar is that big of a deal for a 17th level character.

nope 20hp and 21 AC is a super one...but not for CR18th

 

[OB1]

I'd assume it works the same was as when you gain use of a spell through a Magic Initiate feat, in that it's always cast at the lowest level. Upcasting doesn't automatically happen, you have to choose to use a Spell Slot to do it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'd assume it works the same was as when you gain use of a spell through a Magic Initiate feat, in that it's always cast at the lowest level. Upcasting doesn't automatically happen, you have to choose to use a Spell Slot to do it.

If that's the case, it's weird that they spelled out the hit points for a familiar summoned in a way few people would ever do it.

Or conversely, every DM is going to have to get used to the arcane casters saying, "OK, you know yesterday, in the game, when my character didn't do anything because we were waiting for the barbarian to recover from being resurrected again? I cast a level nine find familiar." Which, again, would sort of feel like the whole thing was a waste of time, since every player would do that once word got around. Which would effectively make it a ninth level ritual.

So we need clarity.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Do we? The Glossary entry for Rituals says all other rules follow the PHB 2014 handbook. The 2014 PHB is clear: casting a ritual "also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level."

Any arcane caster can cast the spell and use a spell slot, and get the elevated abilities. They won't be casting it as a ritual when they do, but using a spell slot.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Do we? The Glossary entry for Rituals says all other rules follow the PHB 2014 handbook. The 2014 PHB is clear: casting a ritual "also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level."

Any arcane caster can cast the spell and use a spell slot, and get the elevated abilities. They won't be casting it as a ritual when they do, but using a spell slot.

OK, but go back now to my second point:

Every arcane spellcaster capable of casting a spell with a second level slot or higher is going to tell their DM they cast find familiar during downtime or between adventures, when those spell slots weren't otherwise being used, because it's going to be the rare player who doesn't want their familiar to be more robust.

So if it has to be cast at the lowest possible level (one) as a ritual, there's almost no point to it being a ritual spell, since no one will cast it that way, which is silly on multiple levels.

 

[Shiroiken]

At Higher Levels specifically calls out when you cast the spell with a higher level slot. Since you are not spending a slot, you cannot use At Higher Levels.

 

[Kobold Stew]

So if it has to be cast at the lowest possible level (one) as a ritual, there's almost no point to it being a ritual spell, since no one will cast it that way, which is silly on multiple levels.

Almost no point -- true. But if you've lost your familiar and you want to replace it, you can do so in 20 minutes and continue adventuring, without having lost a spell slot. I don't see why that's silly.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Almost no point -- true. But if you've lost your familiar and you want to replace it, you can do so in 20 minutes and continue adventuring, without having lost a spell slot. I don't see why that's silly.

Because find familiar is arguably the trope originator for ritual spells, as it's an extremely popular -- almost mandatory -- spell that no one wants to cast during actual play. Updating find familiar in such a way that it will almost never be cast as a ritual is a failure of design, IMO.

Players should not be penalized for casting a spell in the way WotC most expects them to.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I already said it in a different thread: you can cast find familiar with your lowest spell slot or as a ritual and chose to revive the old familar/ steed you summoned with a higher spell.

So you only cast it once at level 9 annd then just use the ritual/free cast version.