D&D (2024) Spell slot level for Find Familiar and Find Steed for rituals, Wild Companion and Faithful Steed

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I already said it in a different thread: you can cast find familiar with your lowest spell slot or as a ritual and chose to revive the old familar/ steed you summoned with a higher spell.

So you only cast it once at level 9 annd then just use the ritual/free cast version.

Yeah, this is all very silly. They should just have the spell be keyed off the caster's level, rather than the level the spell was cast at. This is a layer of complication that will impact play something like 1% of the time.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yeah, this is all very silly. They should just have the spell be keyed off the caster's level, rather than the level the spell was cast at. This is a layer of complication that will impact play something like 1% of the time.

Yes and no.
Keying off the caster level would be a complete break in spell design.
Rather make Rituals and class abilities just always cast at half caster level rounded up.

 

[billd91]

Yeah, this is all very silly. They should just have the spell be keyed off the caster's level, rather than the level the spell was cast at. This is a layer of complication that will impact play something like 1% of the time.

I think I'm with you on this one. It would just be better to calculate the familiar's AC and hit points based on the level of the caster, particularly since the proficiency bonus is keyed to the caster's proficiency bonus and its attacks are based on the caster's magic attack bonus without needing to upcast. Simplify and base it ALL off the caster's values without needing to upcast.
I'm also a bit confounded about the issue of resummoning the same familiar with a subsequent casting. Is it the same AC and hit points as one you had upcast if you resummon it with a lower-level casting?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm finally reading the druid description and I think all of this may be about the fact that druids get familiars temporarily. But if you have to rewrite find familiar to make it work better for non-arcane casters, maybe don't use it as the basis for a druid ability?

 

[Blue]

If that's the case, it's weird that they spelled out the hit points for a familiar summoned in a way few people would ever do it.

A druid may not do it, since it lasts only until the next day. But we haven't see the wizard. Sicne they have their extradimensional escape they aren't as fragile anymore and I could see a wizard using their highest level slot to get a cool one. And if they do need to resummon, using their highest level slot right before a long rest. Casting find familiar like this seems like it would be most common usage of the spell, with only the druid's limitation where it disappears giving them a different take on it.

For Find Steed, it also will last. A paladin using their a higher slot, either at the beginning of a day with lots of outdoors where they don't want the steed to be too fragile and disappear early combat, or at the end of a day with their highest level slot left if they need to resummon. If you are in a space large enough and riding a mount and it dies that impacts the character's combat ability - spending a resource to have something stronger can be a reasonable choice instead of the free casting.

So we need clarity.

5e so far has been 100% consistant about free castings being at the lowest level unless something it is explicitly listed.

 

[Blue]

Yeah, this is all very silly. They should just have the spell be keyed off the caster's level, rather than the level the spell was cast at. This is a layer of complication that will impact play something like 1% of the time.

This does not take into consideration that different characters cast at different levels. Full casters, half casters, 1/3 casters. And needs to be at least cognisant of how casting stacks with multiclass.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

5e so far has been 100% consistant about free castings being at the lowest level unless something it is explicitly listed.

It is totally clear, because if you don't upcast it, you use the spell as written.

The problem however is, that the spell as written references the slot use. Since yoi used no slot, it is unclear.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

It just dawned on me that linking familiar & steed to player level instead of spell slot solves all these problems in addition to the issue of Cleric steeds being more powerful then Paladin steeds. I see nothing in the stat block that would break even if a otherwise martial character gets a familiar via feat and uses their none casting class character levels for the stat block given the familiar is still what, whooping 20hp?

Bang I did, I fixed these two spells.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

One thing I'd add to the find steed spell is water breathing, for if you play an aquatic race like Tritons or Water Genasi.

 

[MarkB]

A simple option for Find Steed would be to kick it out of spellcasting, make it a Channel Divinity usage and give it the same progression as the druid's Animal of the Land / Sea / Sky, with the caveat that it can't be smaller than medium.