D&D 5E Spellcaster/Warrior Imbalances Discussion

[Phazonfish]

A fighter using Action surge twice at 17th level with an 20 in Str using a Greatsword (No feats, no BM dice, etc.) does on average 108 points of damage... 2d6+5 with 3 attacks +Action Surge (3 more attacks) +Action Surge (3 more attacks)...

Just a quick note, you can't use more than one action surge in a turn, even if you have two.

 

[Tony Vargas]

They attempted it in 4e with skill challenges. Everyone joined in and you need to roll a certain number of "hits" in order to succeed in the challenge.

It kinda worked, but also didn't.

It wasn't a functional system, at first, but it was fixed fairly quickly, so it certainly 'worked' at some point. With only a few years of to develop, though, it had a long way to go to catch up with the depth of D&D combat & magic. 5e could take up and further develop something along those lines.

I would denote such a character you describe as being very little benefit to combat. Do you disagree?

Of course not.

And if not, then why can you not also agree that the fighter is of very little benefit in out of combat situations?

Sure.

I think the contention is that 'very little benefit' is still 'contributing' and therefor nothing to complain about.
So, the hypothetical caster who couldn't know combat spells and got by contributing in in combat via inferior weapon attacks, the Help action, and improvisation would, likewise, have no more to complain about than the non-hypothetical fighter.

It's not a situation where a fighter just has lower skill checks for out of combat stuff than the full caster and bounded accuracy still helps him contribute at half or 1/4 effectiveness.

Or 1/16th or whatever...

Instead most of the out of combat stuff in the exploration pillar that full casters get to do he literally cannot do.

They hypothetical combat-incompetent caster couldn't attack 4 times in a round with a greatsword, either, but he can make his contribution of 'very little benefit' with his staff or dagger 1/round. So, sure, a single spell might solve a social or exploration challenge at one go, that doesn't mean the fighter had no contribution to make with his +1 survival or +4 intimidate or -1 diplomacy whatever, just that it wasn't called for in that instance.

That said I feel challenged now to actually try and see just how strong the non-combat fighter can be! I might be pleasantly surprised. I kind of doubt it though...

There's no reason a fighter couldn't be quite decent with a few skills by investing in the right feats. It wouldn't have the level of skill possible with those as with expertise nor the flexiblity and single-spell-solutions of a caster, but it'd be a more-than-very-little-benefit contribution when those specific skills or feats applied.

 

[Imaro]

Just a quick note, you can't use more than one action surge in a turn, even if you have two.

Why not? I dont remember any limitations on them that would preclude using it twice...

Edit: Ah nevermind you're right...last sentence of the ability.... I really wish I got a chance to play more and DM less.

 

[Krachek]

Maybe if they replaced "fly" with "reduce weight", "find food and water" with "transform food and water", and "dimension door" with "dimensional hallway-that-you-still-need-to-walk-down", it would work a lot better.


Change the "I win" spells into "I help" spells.

We can win in DnD ?
I wonder against who?

 

[Phazonfish]

We can win in DnD ?
I wonder against who?

By "win," I believe mellored means conquer the obstacle placed before you by the DM.

Maybe if they replaced "fly" with "reduce weight", "find food and water" with "transform food and water", and "dimension door" with "dimensional hallway-that-you-still-need-to-walk-down", it would work a lot better.

We already have "reduce weight" in the form of Levitate. Not entirely sure what you mean by "transform food and water" though.

 

[Krachek]

By "win," I believe mellored means conquer the obstacle placed before you by the DM.

Player 1 - bottomless pit 0

 

[Shasarak]

Out of combat is another story. Spells often replace rolls and straight up solve problems by themselves out of combat. The warrior types get some neat stuff like our ranger who was an expert tracker and navigator. But he was never able to overcome the kinds of obstacles I could solve with spells, like forming a bridge over a large gap to get an ox pulled cart through the underdark.

Is a spellcaster being able to bridge a gap a bug or a feature in this case?

 

[CapnZapp]

Nod. I'm sure y'all've heard this before, but you could combine the Fighter & Rogue into one class, taking the best of each and cutting nothing, and it still wouldn't be overshadowing anyone...

Original Fighters and Rogues...?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Original Fighters and Rogues...?

I'd've said "Fighter & Thief."

 

[Shasarak]

We can win in DnD ?
I wonder against who?

Against who you are fighting.